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HelpRe: Hera (edited)
in reply to a message by mirfak
and what did rape mean to the ancient Greeks? *eyeroll* exactly. She didn't want to marry him, so he deceived her by turning himself into a bird (because she was kind to small animals) to get close to her, then transformed into himself and "raped" her. Then she married him. Sounds like a great love story. I'm being skeptical of Ancient Greek notions of consent here - the story works for the Greeks, of course; that's what my response was meaning to point out (Greeks certainly would have complained if she took her anger out on Zeus directly/effectively and was portrayed as justified or reasonable, as HailCthulhu suggested! It's modern people who wouldn't, but that's irrelevant to context). In Ancient Greece, legally, for a while at least, rape was considered kind of like property damage (and unmarried Hera wasn't anyone's to protect).
Zeus wanted to marry her because she always was powerful, even before she was goddess of marriage. Within the context of Greek culture, they needed each other.
Maybe she liked being queen of the gods
I think she did (but, context: in a world where her husband is the most powerful being and can't truly be refused).
then it'd be possessive rage, right? Why can't Hera's anger be taken like that?
I didn't contradict that it is? I think you're assuming my interpretation is more reductive than it is.
Do the stories really characterize her as angry at Zeus but taking it out on his mistresses/victims, and too cowed to confront him?
Not cowed, no, although she's associated with cows, just always subordinate (he did imprison her the time she tried to depose him and released her when she promised to be obedient - it's told as if the disaster of Zeus not being in charge is averted) and often ineffective in comparison, which isn't a coincidence.
Anger made all the gods irrational, there need not be anything specially humble-feminine about Hera's rage.
I think that ignores cultural context. I don't think it's a coincidence either that the goddess of wisdom sprang from a god's head instead of being born.
Rage is never humble, but it's obviously not meant to be Hera's role to have a say in Zeus's sex life, while it's taken for granted that she wouldn't commit adultery.
A lot of times Greek gods seem irrational to us but really are reminding someone about not breaking out of their role. So (in context) it's probably not seen as irrational for her to punish unmarried or adulterous women (that's her domain), but it is seen as irrational for her to act as if she has a right to expect fidelity from her husband, even if maybe she can inspire fidelity in mortals.
Or *ashamed* (a goddess, ashamed)? Yes, Greek myths are told this way, as if gods and goddesses can be humiliated by each other.
Zeus wanted to marry her because she always was powerful, even before she was goddess of marriage. Within the context of Greek culture, they needed each other.
Maybe she liked being queen of the gods
I think she did (but, context: in a world where her husband is the most powerful being and can't truly be refused).
then it'd be possessive rage, right? Why can't Hera's anger be taken like that?
I didn't contradict that it is? I think you're assuming my interpretation is more reductive than it is.
Do the stories really characterize her as angry at Zeus but taking it out on his mistresses/victims, and too cowed to confront him?
Not cowed, no, although she's associated with cows, just always subordinate (he did imprison her the time she tried to depose him and released her when she promised to be obedient - it's told as if the disaster of Zeus not being in charge is averted) and often ineffective in comparison, which isn't a coincidence.
Anger made all the gods irrational, there need not be anything specially humble-feminine about Hera's rage.
I think that ignores cultural context. I don't think it's a coincidence either that the goddess of wisdom sprang from a god's head instead of being born.
Rage is never humble, but it's obviously not meant to be Hera's role to have a say in Zeus's sex life, while it's taken for granted that she wouldn't commit adultery.
A lot of times Greek gods seem irrational to us but really are reminding someone about not breaking out of their role. So (in context) it's probably not seen as irrational for her to punish unmarried or adulterous women (that's her domain), but it is seen as irrational for her to act as if she has a right to expect fidelity from her husband, even if maybe she can inspire fidelity in mortals.
Or *ashamed* (a goddess, ashamed)? Yes, Greek myths are told this way, as if gods and goddesses can be humiliated by each other.
This message was edited 4/27/2021, 5:06 PM
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