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Help[Opinions] Re: Is it wrong to give your baby a tribal name if you're not from that tribe?
in reply to a message by Apozanolotl
Erm.
Again, I am not from this particular indigenous background. But I'm starting to wonder... either way, this is not factually correct.
Multiple google search for 'Nahua people today': https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=f602dc89620483ed&rlz=1C1SLLM_en-GBGB1109GB1109&sxsrf=ADLYWIK1USJbpmglm4QqMq988UDLiS8POQ:1729279870280&q=Nahua+people+today&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjjnIrD1ZiJAxWLbEEAHQKoFacQ1QJ6BAhVEAE&biw=1536&bih=695&dpr=1.25
Britannica article about the Nahua people: https://www.britannica.com/topic/Nahua
One of many ethnographic websites about the Nahua people: https://ehrafworldcultures.yale.edu/cultures/nu46/summary
Examples of publications about Nahua culture and society TO PRESENT DAY: https://www.ubcpress.ca/the-nahua
I hate to refer to Wiki, but I'm going to - the Nahua people literally have a page referring to them as very much alive and thriving - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nahuas
I also hate to refer to Reddit but I'm going to - here - https://www.reddit.com/r/mesoamerica/comments/10xza4u/mexicaaztecnahuatl_getting_the_terms_right/ and also the Nahuatl subreddit. According to this my question of Nahua isn't strictly right as it refers mainly to Nahuatl-speaking persons, but I have also been very up front with my lack of cultural knowledge and not wanting to overstep my mark as someone not from the culture... but it's still a term that's used.
https://www.britishmuseum.org/blog/indigenous-reframing-fall-aztec-empire - The British Museum (World Ranking - if controversial re: indigenous (or most) cultures - institution) referring to Nahua community and their position as 'the descendants of the Aztecs'.
An educational study undertaken in the community -https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0065240715000166 and a human biology study - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0198885923000563.
I could go further. This is only what I found in a surface-level search in English, I bet I could find even more and better stuff if I dug deeper or did a search in Spanish.
Safe to say, Nahua people (even if it just means 'Nahuatl-speaker') definitely, 100% still exist today and didn't vanish 125 years before the Aztecs!
Next, I tried to find evidence of a group of people called Nahua who ceased to exist before the Aztecs - so people referred to as that stopped being around completely, or an ethnonym or ethnic identity that people stopped identifying with, not just one didn't just stop being the dominant social group but continued to the present. I didn't find any evidence of this but admittedly it was just a quick look because I did find something else interesting. I did find a lot of stuff about pre-Aztec Nahua/Nahuatl-speaking societies that fell before the Aztecs but... that basically means people who were the ancestors of Aztecs before they became Aztecs, or people who spoke Nahuatl who had societies before the Aztecs and doesn't really mean much.
BUT before I could go on further I did find this - https://homework.study.com/explanation/are-the-nahua-and-aztec-people-the-same-people.html#:~:text=The%20Nahua%20and%20the%20Aztec,known%20for%20their%20military%20prowess.
Isn't that interesting? Something makes me think you googled Nahua and Aztec and found this. It's also the only place I found this claim, although admittedly I didn't go further so maybe I'm wrong. Just a kind word of advice, these kinds of websites tend to be absolute crap, that's why they hide most of the article behind a pay wall - so you won't have read enough to know it's rubbish and pay hoping you'll get easy answers.
Ultimately I did find that (especially in America) there are people from this background who self-identify as Aztec, more than I would've thought and - to be clear - absolutely fine, surprising to me given some of the racist/colonial associations but absolutely fine nonetheless. I do know people who are of C/S. American and indigenous background and some of them would not love some of the associations. Noone I know of an indigenous Mexican background describes themselves as Aztec, HOWEVER that doesn't make any of us an expert on it and it seems some people do so I was wrong to question it. I also live in the UK and a lot of people I know from an indigenous Mexican background are based here as well, so there might be a cultural factor at play.
HOWEVER, I'm now going to be a jerk and say like others I am absolutely not convinced you are actually a genuine poster and not a troll. From your confidently incorrect claim that Nahua people do not exist, to your use of dubious Nahuatl names, to your narrative as listed below and dramatic cultural “gatekeeping”, to your repetition of the above dubious website…
Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe there’s a lost in translation issue or misunderstanding or something but…
Again, I am not from this particular indigenous background. But I'm starting to wonder... either way, this is not factually correct.
Multiple google search for 'Nahua people today': https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=f602dc89620483ed&rlz=1C1SLLM_en-GBGB1109GB1109&sxsrf=ADLYWIK1USJbpmglm4QqMq988UDLiS8POQ:1729279870280&q=Nahua+people+today&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjjnIrD1ZiJAxWLbEEAHQKoFacQ1QJ6BAhVEAE&biw=1536&bih=695&dpr=1.25
Britannica article about the Nahua people: https://www.britannica.com/topic/Nahua
One of many ethnographic websites about the Nahua people: https://ehrafworldcultures.yale.edu/cultures/nu46/summary
Examples of publications about Nahua culture and society TO PRESENT DAY: https://www.ubcpress.ca/the-nahua
I hate to refer to Wiki, but I'm going to - the Nahua people literally have a page referring to them as very much alive and thriving - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nahuas
I also hate to refer to Reddit but I'm going to - here - https://www.reddit.com/r/mesoamerica/comments/10xza4u/mexicaaztecnahuatl_getting_the_terms_right/ and also the Nahuatl subreddit. According to this my question of Nahua isn't strictly right as it refers mainly to Nahuatl-speaking persons, but I have also been very up front with my lack of cultural knowledge and not wanting to overstep my mark as someone not from the culture... but it's still a term that's used.
https://www.britishmuseum.org/blog/indigenous-reframing-fall-aztec-empire - The British Museum (World Ranking - if controversial re: indigenous (or most) cultures - institution) referring to Nahua community and their position as 'the descendants of the Aztecs'.
An educational study undertaken in the community -https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0065240715000166 and a human biology study - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0198885923000563.
I could go further. This is only what I found in a surface-level search in English, I bet I could find even more and better stuff if I dug deeper or did a search in Spanish.
Safe to say, Nahua people (even if it just means 'Nahuatl-speaker') definitely, 100% still exist today and didn't vanish 125 years before the Aztecs!
Next, I tried to find evidence of a group of people called Nahua who ceased to exist before the Aztecs - so people referred to as that stopped being around completely, or an ethnonym or ethnic identity that people stopped identifying with, not just one didn't just stop being the dominant social group but continued to the present. I didn't find any evidence of this but admittedly it was just a quick look because I did find something else interesting. I did find a lot of stuff about pre-Aztec Nahua/Nahuatl-speaking societies that fell before the Aztecs but... that basically means people who were the ancestors of Aztecs before they became Aztecs, or people who spoke Nahuatl who had societies before the Aztecs and doesn't really mean much.
BUT before I could go on further I did find this - https://homework.study.com/explanation/are-the-nahua-and-aztec-people-the-same-people.html#:~:text=The%20Nahua%20and%20the%20Aztec,known%20for%20their%20military%20prowess.
Isn't that interesting? Something makes me think you googled Nahua and Aztec and found this. It's also the only place I found this claim, although admittedly I didn't go further so maybe I'm wrong. Just a kind word of advice, these kinds of websites tend to be absolute crap, that's why they hide most of the article behind a pay wall - so you won't have read enough to know it's rubbish and pay hoping you'll get easy answers.
Ultimately I did find that (especially in America) there are people from this background who self-identify as Aztec, more than I would've thought and - to be clear - absolutely fine, surprising to me given some of the racist/colonial associations but absolutely fine nonetheless. I do know people who are of C/S. American and indigenous background and some of them would not love some of the associations. Noone I know of an indigenous Mexican background describes themselves as Aztec, HOWEVER that doesn't make any of us an expert on it and it seems some people do so I was wrong to question it. I also live in the UK and a lot of people I know from an indigenous Mexican background are based here as well, so there might be a cultural factor at play.
HOWEVER, I'm now going to be a jerk and say like others I am absolutely not convinced you are actually a genuine poster and not a troll. From your confidently incorrect claim that Nahua people do not exist, to your use of dubious Nahuatl names, to your narrative as listed below and dramatic cultural “gatekeeping”, to your repetition of the above dubious website…
Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe there’s a lost in translation issue or misunderstanding or something but…
This message was edited 10/18/2024, 1:29 PM
