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Help[Facts] Vaclav and Venceslav
Can anyone clear up the relationship between Václav and Věnceslav? And also, confirm the meaning and form of the first element? And suggest an ancestral Slavic form?
Thanks!
Thanks!
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Replies
I would suggest the following proto-Slavic form: Ventjeslawus "major-glorified". The -tj- cluster changed into -c-/-Ö- in West Slavic, to -×- in Russian, òî -Ù- in Bulgarian.
The old-Slavonic/old-Bulgarian form is not attested, as far as I know. It should be written in Cyrillic like this: ÂßØÒÅÑËÀÂÚ/ÂßÙÅÑËÀÂÚ/Âÿùåñëàâú.
The Russian form is well known: modern Âÿ÷åñëàâ, pre-1918 Âÿ÷åñëàâú.
Please note that there is also an innovative Bulgarian name Âåíöåñëàâ (Venceslav) which sound similarly but it could be translated as "garland-glorified" rather than "major-glorified".
The old-Slavonic/old-Bulgarian form is not attested, as far as I know. It should be written in Cyrillic like this: ÂßØÒÅÑËÀÂÚ/ÂßÙÅÑËÀÂÚ/Âÿùåñëàâú.
The Russian form is well known: modern Âÿ÷åñëàâ, pre-1918 Âÿ÷åñëàâú.
Please note that there is also an innovative Bulgarian name Âåíöåñëàâ (Venceslav) which sound similarly but it could be translated as "garland-glorified" rather than "major-glorified".
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This is what I managed to find:
Vaclav is a Czech male name, that is a short form of Vaceslav.
Venceslav is a male name derived from Venceslaus (which in itself is a Latinate form derived from Slavic Veceslavb).
Meaning: from 'vace/vece' meaning big, bigger and 'slav' meaning glory.
So in short, Old Slavic name Veceslavb was turned into Latinate Venceslaus and all other forms derived from one of these two or a combination of them and we get - Vaclav, Vaceslav, Vjenceslav, Vjenćeslav, Venceslav, Ventseslav, Venceslas, Vyacheslav, Wenceslaus, Wenceslas... (pretty much every Slavic language has it's own form).
Vaclav is a Czech male name, that is a short form of Vaceslav.
Venceslav is a male name derived from Venceslaus (which in itself is a Latinate form derived from Slavic Veceslavb).
Meaning: from 'vace/vece' meaning big, bigger and 'slav' meaning glory.
So in short, Old Slavic name Veceslavb was turned into Latinate Venceslaus and all other forms derived from one of these two or a combination of them and we get - Vaclav, Vaceslav, Vjenceslav, Vjenćeslav, Venceslav, Ventseslav, Venceslas, Vyacheslav, Wenceslaus, Wenceslas... (pretty much every Slavic language has it's own form).
This message was edited 7/16/2010, 8:55 PM
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Does this diagram make sense?
Veceslavb (Slavic)
->Vaceslav (Czech)
->Vaclav (Czech)
->Waclaw (Polish)
->Venceslaus (Latin)
->Wenceslaus
->Venceslav (Czech)
->Ventseslav (Bulgarian)
->Vyacheslav (Russian)
Veceslavb (Slavic)
->Vaceslav (Czech)
->Vaclav (Czech)
->Waclaw (Polish)
->Venceslaus (Latin)
->Wenceslaus
->Venceslav (Czech)
->Ventseslav (Bulgarian)
->Vyacheslav (Russian)
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That's about right, you can just add the Polish Wenceslas under Wenceslaus and the Croatian version Vjeceslav under Veceslavb (btw, the Polish King/ Saint's name is Wenceslaus officially. I guess his 'street' name was Wenceslas -as most royals had Latin versions of their names at the time).
This message was edited 7/18/2010, 4:56 PM
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Thank you!
How would you spell Veceslavb in Cyrillic? What does that c represent?
How would you spell Veceslavb in Cyrillic? What does that c represent?
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In this case the c is just a c (pr. tz), not a č or ć (pr. ch). Although in some languages the 'vece' part turned into 'veće' (like in modern Croatian) and we have two versions of the name (Vjeceslav and Vjećeslav), it is a normal c in Vaclac, Veceslavb, etc.
About spelling Veceslavb in Cyrillic it depends on the language, I only know Serbian Cyrillic and it would be 'Вeцecлaвб'.
About spelling Veceslavb in Cyrillic it depends on the language, I only know Serbian Cyrillic and it would be 'Вeцecлaвб'.
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