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HelpRe: *sigh*
in reply to a message by Bear
I get where you are coming from, I just wonder that if no one ever uses it than it will always hold that meaning but with new use comes new meanings. Does that make sense? we can dwell in the past or we can make a new future.
oh and I love Jemima Puddleduck and the dove meaning, which is exactly why I love Jemima
oh and I love Jemima Puddleduck and the dove meaning, which is exactly why I love Jemima
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lol, i posted something similar saying that if people of other ethnicities and races used it more often it would dilloute the negative connotation... great minds i guess.
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the problem (from my perspective)
(and as someone who likes the name Jemima)
is that, to use myself as an example, I have no business trying to "reclaim" the name, because I'm white. It's one thing if an African American parent/couple gives it to their child — they don't speak for the whole of American black society, of course, but they can at least claim the identity as their own. But a white parent/couple can't try to erase a history that isn't theirs to own ("own" in the sense that it doesn't affect them adversely, not "own" meaning to take responsibility).
It's a really good name, though. I wouldn't say it's completely unusable, but I think anyone who does want to use it needs to think about the implications and if they're comfortable with them.
ETA: Because I didn't address this, I still think it's a bit problematic even if the parent/couple isn't white or African-American. But maybe not as much.
(and as someone who likes the name Jemima)
is that, to use myself as an example, I have no business trying to "reclaim" the name, because I'm white. It's one thing if an African American parent/couple gives it to their child — they don't speak for the whole of American black society, of course, but they can at least claim the identity as their own. But a white parent/couple can't try to erase a history that isn't theirs to own ("own" in the sense that it doesn't affect them adversely, not "own" meaning to take responsibility).
It's a really good name, though. I wouldn't say it's completely unusable, but I think anyone who does want to use it needs to think about the implications and if they're comfortable with them.
ETA: Because I didn't address this, I still think it's a bit problematic even if the parent/couple isn't white or African-American. But maybe not as much.
This message was edited 3/29/2012, 5:08 PM
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This is an excellent point. I too think that Jemima is a lovely name and would like to see it reclaimed, but as a white person it is simply not my place to do the reclaiming.
But I would also not see it as hateful if I did see it used by a white or non-African American family. Maybe ignorant, but not hateful.
It's interesting that Jemima is so problematic but Benjamin (Uncle Ben) is not. I wonder why?
But I would also not see it as hateful if I did see it used by a white or non-African American family. Maybe ignorant, but not hateful.
It's interesting that Jemima is so problematic but Benjamin (Uncle Ben) is not. I wonder why?
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Uncle Ben was never racist to the same degree that Aunt Jemima was. He *was* racist to a certain degree, in that he was called Uncle the same way that Aunt Jemima was called Aunt. Back during the Jim Crow era, black people were called "Uncle" and "Aunt" by white people who wanted to show a certain amount of respect towards a black person--but they had to use those terms because it was unthinkable for a white to call a black Mr. or Mrs.
And he was also racist in that the character played into the old stereotype of blacks using their wonderful cooking skills to serve whites, the same way that Aunt Jemima did.
So to that degree, his character was racist. But the makers of Aunt Jemima carried it much further than that. They created an entire story about how Aunt Jemima was a former slave on the plantation of Colonel Higbee, and that she was famous all over for her wonderful pancakes, and that she loved nothing better than to make her pancakes for the white folks, she had two children that were referred to in the advertisements as "pickaninnies", how after the Civil War a Northern milling company heard about the great pancakes and asked her to come up North to show them how to make a mix for the pancakes.
The old ads exaggerated her thick lips and white teeth standing out against her black face. Unlike Uncle Ben, she was a woman, and the character fit the stereotype of a black woman as being a physically unattractive, overweight, sexless character who wanted nothing but to serve with no monetary compensation. The ads would also have her speaking through word balloons in typical dialect: "Chile" "Gwine" "Lawsy", etc. Over and over they depicted white people sitting back in leisure to enjoy the pancakes that Aunt Jemima had slaved over. She was never shown partaking of them herself.
For that matter, there's Rastus who is on the Cream of Wheat box, but he too was never depicted to the racist lengths that Aunt Jemima was.
And he was also racist in that the character played into the old stereotype of blacks using their wonderful cooking skills to serve whites, the same way that Aunt Jemima did.
So to that degree, his character was racist. But the makers of Aunt Jemima carried it much further than that. They created an entire story about how Aunt Jemima was a former slave on the plantation of Colonel Higbee, and that she was famous all over for her wonderful pancakes, and that she loved nothing better than to make her pancakes for the white folks, she had two children that were referred to in the advertisements as "pickaninnies", how after the Civil War a Northern milling company heard about the great pancakes and asked her to come up North to show them how to make a mix for the pancakes.
The old ads exaggerated her thick lips and white teeth standing out against her black face. Unlike Uncle Ben, she was a woman, and the character fit the stereotype of a black woman as being a physically unattractive, overweight, sexless character who wanted nothing but to serve with no monetary compensation. The ads would also have her speaking through word balloons in typical dialect: "Chile" "Gwine" "Lawsy", etc. Over and over they depicted white people sitting back in leisure to enjoy the pancakes that Aunt Jemima had slaved over. She was never shown partaking of them herself.
For that matter, there's Rastus who is on the Cream of Wheat box, but he too was never depicted to the racist lengths that Aunt Jemima was.
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Also, Jemima is a really distinct name, where Ben isn't. Adolf got spoiled, but Joseph (Stalin) didn't. etc.
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Whoooaa I never knew the Aunt Jemima "backstory". That's awful.
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I honestly don't think many people today are even aware of the racist issues with the name. If the meaning of Jemima was something racist than I could see it being a bigger problem. Jemima means 'dove', its Biblical and has a rather famous story book character with the name, I think all of those things are important to consider as well. Why get hung up on one usage but not any of the others?
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i see it a little differently
I kind of think that seeing Jemima becoming popular for non-African Americans would erase some of the "belonging" Aunt Jemima and the whole jemima "thing" in general has over the name itself. Adding some diversity to the usage will change the perception I think because it won't be associated only with that history but with it's modern use as a name.
I kind of think that seeing Jemima becoming popular for non-African Americans would erase some of the "belonging" Aunt Jemima and the whole jemima "thing" in general has over the name itself. Adding some diversity to the usage will change the perception I think because it won't be associated only with that history but with it's modern use as a name.
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Agree, it's problematic when you start talking about "reclaiming".
:)
:)
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it's a vicious circle...
Jemima holds onto its bad association because it's so rarely used. I expect that when the Aunt Jemima character was developed the name was already fairly uncommon, or associated strongly with older black women.
And the name is not used because of that one strong association.
Jemima holds onto its bad association because it's so rarely used. I expect that when the Aunt Jemima character was developed the name was already fairly uncommon, or associated strongly with older black women.
And the name is not used because of that one strong association.
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I agree
I have no idea how Jemima apparently became thought of as a black name. Before the Civil War, there were plenty of white American women named Jemima. Daniel Boone had a daughter named Jemima, and they were pretty obviously white.
This might be off-topic, I actually noticed that Old Testament names like Jemima grew much less common after the Civil War. I wonder why? My theory is that when a lot of the common medieval names (usually of Germanic origin) like Ida, Emma, and Roger were revived, Biblical names like Jemima, Ezekiel, and Tabitha were pushed aside and neglected. Jemima may have been revived if it weren't for Aunt Jemima.
I have no idea how Jemima apparently became thought of as a black name. Before the Civil War, there were plenty of white American women named Jemima. Daniel Boone had a daughter named Jemima, and they were pretty obviously white.
This might be off-topic, I actually noticed that Old Testament names like Jemima grew much less common after the Civil War. I wonder why? My theory is that when a lot of the common medieval names (usually of Germanic origin) like Ida, Emma, and Roger were revived, Biblical names like Jemima, Ezekiel, and Tabitha were pushed aside and neglected. Jemima may have been revived if it weren't for Aunt Jemima.
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I guess it happens. Adolf died because of Adolf Hitler. My daughter says it's a shame because she likes the name Adolf.
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Adolf reminds me of my favorite knock-knock joke when I was little...
Knock Knocok.
Who's there?
Adolf.
Adolf who?
Adolf ball hit me in da mowf.
This one made me laugh almost to the point of peeing on myself when I was about eight.
Knock Knocok.
Who's there?
Adolf.
Adolf who?
Adolf ball hit me in da mowf.
This one made me laugh almost to the point of peeing on myself when I was about eight.
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Knock knock
Who's there?
Alec
Alec who?
Electricity. Isn't that shocking?!
Not as funny, but also comes from school days.
Who's there?
Alec
Alec who?
Electricity. Isn't that shocking?!
Not as funny, but also comes from school days.
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