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Help[Facts] Re: Lleucu
in reply to a message by Musaraigne
BtN has it as a form of Lucia/Lucy used in Wales, but the orthography isn't consistent with the Welsh language. Ll in Welsh is not a long "l", but a voiceless alveolar lateral fricative, a sound common in Native American languages (often transcribed tl or lt) and forming a sound similar to "ch" in English. It doesn't develop naturally from older/foreign words with l, but from earlier sequences of t-l or th-l. Only an English speaker would think Lucy would be written Lleucu in Welsh. Since Welsh was suppressed for many generations (less than a quarter of the population of Wales can speak Welsh) it could be common in Wales as a Pseudo-Welsh variant of Lucy, but it's fake Welsh, neither the actual development of Lucia in Welsh or another genuine Welsh name.
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Thanks for the thoughtful responses!
I don't think Lleucu was ever meant to be pronounced like Lucy. The 1851 census in Glamorgan shows that the name was in use at the time, and seeing as the majority still spoke Welsh at that point, I don't think the name can have arisen from a misapprehension of the Welsh pronunciation.
The usual explanation was that it was invented by suffixing cu (meaning "dear") onto the mythological boys' Lleu, thought to mean "light". I'm just wondering when it was coined: does anyone know whether it goes back a long way, or whether it was created recently as an "indigenous" equivalent of Lucy?
I don't think Lleucu was ever meant to be pronounced like Lucy. The 1851 census in Glamorgan shows that the name was in use at the time, and seeing as the majority still spoke Welsh at that point, I don't think the name can have arisen from a misapprehension of the Welsh pronunciation.
The usual explanation was that it was invented by suffixing cu (meaning "dear") onto the mythological boys' Lleu, thought to mean "light". I'm just wondering when it was coined: does anyone know whether it goes back a long way, or whether it was created recently as an "indigenous" equivalent of Lucy?
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There's a 13th-century poem containing the name Lleucu, (Marwnad Lleucu Llwyd) so nope, not a recent invention.
Lleucu isn't used as a form of Lucy; it sounds nothing like it, it's a name in its own right, and is used as such.
And a modern Welsh spelling of Lucy is Liwsi, as used by someone I know on her daughter fairly recently.
(I'm Welsh.)
Lleucu isn't used as a form of Lucy; it sounds nothing like it, it's a name in its own right, and is used as such.
And a modern Welsh spelling of Lucy is Liwsi, as used by someone I know on her daughter fairly recently.
(I'm Welsh.)
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Thank you so much, Pie, for the info! It's fascinating to hear that it IS an indigenous name. Do you have a theory as to the name's etymology?
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