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Help[Facts] Re: German male first names
in reply to a message by Leslie
You must be confusing surnames for first names, like Rene already suggested. In German churchbooks (before Napoleonic times, these were the main source for birth records, marriage records and death records), first names were always latinized - and from time to time, surnames as well (often, those would be patronymic surnames). That is not very surprising, considering church books were always written in Latin.
As such, a man named Johann Jansen would be recorded in the churchbooks as Joannes Joanni. Since there was no fixed spelling for surnames in those times (it depended on the level of literacy of the cleric who wrote down the names and surnames, among others), variations like Joanny, Joanney, etc. could easily come into being. It has nothing to do with the relationship of ancestor vs. descendant in any way - I mean, there wasn't a particular societal system in place, where names ending in -y were used to signify a descendant.
I have seen this myself with my own surname (which originates in Germany), when researching my own family tree - a little over a century ago, it was written as Paulus, but further back in time (before 1790) it was written as Pauli in the churchbooks. As such, ancestors would be listed as Joannes Pauli (Johann Paulus), Gualterus Pauli (Walter Paulus), and so on. I also encountered multiple spelling variations, such as Paulij, Pauly, etc.
If you are sure that you aren't dealing with surnames here, then let me ask you a question: do these names appear as middle names? If so, then you're probably dealing with a latinized patronymic (but then not in the form of a hereditary surname). In the example of a man named Henricus Joanni Becker, 'Joanni' would be the latinized patronymic, meaning "son of Joannes". The original, non-latinized name would then probably have been Heinrich Jansen Becker.
I hope that this at least somewhat answers your question. If not, kindly provide more information, so that everyone has a better idea of what direction they should be thinking into.
"How do you pick up the threads of an old life? How do you go on... when in your heart you begin to understand... there is no going back? There are some things that time cannot mend... some hurts that go too deep... that have taken hold." ~ Frodo Baggins
As such, a man named Johann Jansen would be recorded in the churchbooks as Joannes Joanni. Since there was no fixed spelling for surnames in those times (it depended on the level of literacy of the cleric who wrote down the names and surnames, among others), variations like Joanny, Joanney, etc. could easily come into being. It has nothing to do with the relationship of ancestor vs. descendant in any way - I mean, there wasn't a particular societal system in place, where names ending in -y were used to signify a descendant.
I have seen this myself with my own surname (which originates in Germany), when researching my own family tree - a little over a century ago, it was written as Paulus, but further back in time (before 1790) it was written as Pauli in the churchbooks. As such, ancestors would be listed as Joannes Pauli (Johann Paulus), Gualterus Pauli (Walter Paulus), and so on. I also encountered multiple spelling variations, such as Paulij, Pauly, etc.
If you are sure that you aren't dealing with surnames here, then let me ask you a question: do these names appear as middle names? If so, then you're probably dealing with a latinized patronymic (but then not in the form of a hereditary surname). In the example of a man named Henricus Joanni Becker, 'Joanni' would be the latinized patronymic, meaning "son of Joannes". The original, non-latinized name would then probably have been Heinrich Jansen Becker.
I hope that this at least somewhat answers your question. If not, kindly provide more information, so that everyone has a better idea of what direction they should be thinking into.
"How do you pick up the threads of an old life? How do you go on... when in your heart you begin to understand... there is no going back? There are some things that time cannot mend... some hurts that go too deep... that have taken hold." ~ Frodo Baggins
This message was edited 4/15/2011, 3:43 PM
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Replies
I'm positive these names are not surnames, as they are followed by the surname. For instance, Josephus Fix, son of Josephi Fix and Jacobus Lintz, son of Jacobi Lintz. The idea of the cleric writing his perception of the name sounds reasonable. I imagine the exact detail of the spelling of the first names was not really important during that time. Decendants where known as Joanne, son of Jacob etc. (Holy Roman Empire 1600-1750) From the looks of the records themselves, speed of writing seemed more important than spelling. Also, through the era, the records changed from Latin to French to German thus changing the names from Jois Petri to Jean Pierre to Joanne Peter. That could be a possibility too. Perhaps the first names Joseph and Jacob did the same. Thank you all for your help. Wonderful brain storming.
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Very good explanation! .
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