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I just read the site's information on Dexter and I wish to correct it:
The name Dexter is of ancient Greek origin. It derives from the Greek word "dexiteros", a poetic form of the word "dexios", meaning right-handed, fortunate, skilled. The Latin word "dexter" derives from the Greek "dexiteros".
("A Greek-English Lexicon", Liddell and Scott, "Lexicon of the ancient Greek Language", I. Stamatakos, "Lexicon of the Latin Language", S. Koumanoudes)
The name Dexter has been inscribed on a tombstone of the 2nd cent. BCE found in Corfu, Greece, together with another Greek name: ARETABION HAIRE, DEXTER HAIRE. ("Names and People of Ancient Corfu", by the archaeologist Katerina Kanta-Kitsou, ISBN 960-87179-0-6)
"Until the day that an ancient text will be found with the name "Alexandrovski" written on it instead of "Alexander", true Macedonia and true Macedonians will remain Greek, as they always were."
The name Dexter is of ancient Greek origin. It derives from the Greek word "dexiteros", a poetic form of the word "dexios", meaning right-handed, fortunate, skilled. The Latin word "dexter" derives from the Greek "dexiteros".
("A Greek-English Lexicon", Liddell and Scott, "Lexicon of the ancient Greek Language", I. Stamatakos, "Lexicon of the Latin Language", S. Koumanoudes)
The name Dexter has been inscribed on a tombstone of the 2nd cent. BCE found in Corfu, Greece, together with another Greek name: ARETABION HAIRE, DEXTER HAIRE. ("Names and People of Ancient Corfu", by the archaeologist Katerina Kanta-Kitsou, ISBN 960-87179-0-6)
"Until the day that an ancient text will be found with the name "Alexandrovski" written on it instead of "Alexander", true Macedonia and true Macedonians will remain Greek, as they always were."
This message was edited 2/19/2006, 6:16 AM
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Replies
I disagree. The word dexter is Latin. It is related to the Greek word (a cognate, ultimately from Indo-European *dek- see http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?l=d&p=8 ).
The name Dexter is an Old English surname. It coincides with the Latin word, as in it is spelled the same. If parents DO give the name intending it to mean "skillful", then it is much more likely they have the Latin word in mind.
The name Dexter is an Old English surname. It coincides with the Latin word, as in it is spelled the same. If parents DO give the name intending it to mean "skillful", then it is much more likely they have the Latin word in mind.
1
Dear Mike C
Of course the word "dexter" is Latin, but it derives from the Greek word "dexiteros" (m) - "dexitera" (f)!
I am familiar with the explanation that etymonline.com gives.
However: The first historically proven use of the "PIE" ("Paleo Indo-European") base *dek- or *dex- as a prefix with the meaning of "right", is found in the Greek Linear B scripts (1500-1200 BCE):
dek-a-sa-to, dek-o-me, (words)
DEX-EYS, DEX-I-FOS (names) etc.
and not in any other "Indo-European" or Latin language. With simple words, that lead us to the scientific conclusion that the elements
*dek-, *dex- derives from Mycenaean Greek, until a finding of another inscription older than Linear B scripts changes that fact.
("Documents in Mycenaean Greek, Three Hundred Selected Tablets From Knossos, Pylos and Mycenae, With Commentary and Vocabularies". Michael Ventris and John Chadwick, Cambridge University Press, 1956.
"Corpus of Mycenaean Inscriptions of Knossos", Volumes 1-4. John Chadwick et al, Cambridge University Press.)
As for etymonline.com, (or any other etymology work written or online as far I know), although it does a good job, to my humble opinion it needs to be updated with Linear B vocabulary, a most important tool for the science of etymology, after it was deciphered by M. Ventris and J. Chadwick in 1953.
Obviously, 'If parents DO give the name intending it to mean "skillful", then it is much more likely they have the Latin word in mind.', since officially it was through the Romans that the Germanic tribes (Anglo-Saxons etc.) got in contact with the ancient Greek civilization. (Although unofficially the first contacts between Western Europeans and Greeks took place in much earlier times, i.e. Pytheas and older:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pytheas
http://www.ahepafamily.org/d5/pytheas.html)
PS: LGPN (http://www.lgpn.ox.ac.uk) covers 91 names with the prefix Dex-, including two Dexters.
"Until the day that an ancient inscription will be found with the name "Alexandrovski" (or "Alexandrev" or "Alexandrov") written on it instead of "Alexander", true Macedonia and true Macedonians will remain Greek, as they always were."
Of course the word "dexter" is Latin, but it derives from the Greek word "dexiteros" (m) - "dexitera" (f)!
I am familiar with the explanation that etymonline.com gives.
However: The first historically proven use of the "PIE" ("Paleo Indo-European") base *dek- or *dex- as a prefix with the meaning of "right", is found in the Greek Linear B scripts (1500-1200 BCE):
dek-a-sa-to, dek-o-me, (words)
DEX-EYS, DEX-I-FOS (names) etc.
and not in any other "Indo-European" or Latin language. With simple words, that lead us to the scientific conclusion that the elements
*dek-, *dex- derives from Mycenaean Greek, until a finding of another inscription older than Linear B scripts changes that fact.
("Documents in Mycenaean Greek, Three Hundred Selected Tablets From Knossos, Pylos and Mycenae, With Commentary and Vocabularies". Michael Ventris and John Chadwick, Cambridge University Press, 1956.
"Corpus of Mycenaean Inscriptions of Knossos", Volumes 1-4. John Chadwick et al, Cambridge University Press.)
As for etymonline.com, (or any other etymology work written or online as far I know), although it does a good job, to my humble opinion it needs to be updated with Linear B vocabulary, a most important tool for the science of etymology, after it was deciphered by M. Ventris and J. Chadwick in 1953.
Obviously, 'If parents DO give the name intending it to mean "skillful", then it is much more likely they have the Latin word in mind.', since officially it was through the Romans that the Germanic tribes (Anglo-Saxons etc.) got in contact with the ancient Greek civilization. (Although unofficially the first contacts between Western Europeans and Greeks took place in much earlier times, i.e. Pytheas and older:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pytheas
http://www.ahepafamily.org/d5/pytheas.html)
PS: LGPN (http://www.lgpn.ox.ac.uk) covers 91 names with the prefix Dex-, including two Dexters.
"Until the day that an ancient inscription will be found with the name "Alexandrovski" (or "Alexandrev" or "Alexandrov") written on it instead of "Alexander", true Macedonia and true Macedonians will remain Greek, as they always were."
This message was edited 2/20/2006, 3:32 AM
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Hmm... I think we have different approaches. I don't believe we can say that the English name Dexter has Greek origins just because it is identical to a Latin word that is related to a Greek word.
Take care,
Mike
PS: this may be nitpicking, but "scientific conclusions" cannot be drawn in the way you suggest. Obviously some cultures developed writing before others. Also "facts" cannot be changed - if a fact is changed then it wasn't a fact to begin with!
Take care,
Mike
PS: this may be nitpicking, but "scientific conclusions" cannot be drawn in the way you suggest. Obviously some cultures developed writing before others. Also "facts" cannot be changed - if a fact is changed then it wasn't a fact to begin with!
1
Dear Mike,
I haven’t mentioned that the English name Dexter has Greek origins, but that THE name Dexter has Greek origins, (from Latin word dexter, from the Greek dexiteros etc.), especially after the proof of the usage of the name Dexter in ancient Greece!
I truly admit that you have done a great job here with this site, by far the best work online in its category, but: nobody is perfect...certainly not me! :)
Therefore, in order to get better, it is essential that whenever new evidence has been found in a situation, we have the responsibility, after we research its accuracy, to include it in our data.
So, IMHO, in the BtN search results for Dexter, if you want to be historically accurate, you must also include the origins of the Latin word dexter and more important, the fact that the personal name Dexter was already in use in ancient Greece, long before the use of the English word dexter as a surname.
Always open to constructive dialogue.
PS: In response to your PS:
1. The term "scientific conclusion" can be applied if we are talking about the theoretical sciences, (such as glossology, etymology etc.) since by definition, these sciences are based on research and the gathering of information, which they use as "scientific conclusions" until a new “discovery” appears in their field of interest.
2. Excuse my English, instead of “facts” put “data”.
"Until the day that an ancient inscription will be found with the name "Alexandrovski" (or "Alexandrev" or "Alexandrov") written on it instead of "Alexander", true Macedonia and true Macedonians will remain Greek, as they always were."
I haven’t mentioned that the English name Dexter has Greek origins, but that THE name Dexter has Greek origins, (from Latin word dexter, from the Greek dexiteros etc.), especially after the proof of the usage of the name Dexter in ancient Greece!
I truly admit that you have done a great job here with this site, by far the best work online in its category, but: nobody is perfect...certainly not me! :)
Therefore, in order to get better, it is essential that whenever new evidence has been found in a situation, we have the responsibility, after we research its accuracy, to include it in our data.
So, IMHO, in the BtN search results for Dexter, if you want to be historically accurate, you must also include the origins of the Latin word dexter and more important, the fact that the personal name Dexter was already in use in ancient Greece, long before the use of the English word dexter as a surname.
Always open to constructive dialogue.
PS: In response to your PS:
1. The term "scientific conclusion" can be applied if we are talking about the theoretical sciences, (such as glossology, etymology etc.) since by definition, these sciences are based on research and the gathering of information, which they use as "scientific conclusions" until a new “discovery” appears in their field of interest.
2. Excuse my English, instead of “facts” put “data”.
"Until the day that an ancient inscription will be found with the name "Alexandrovski" (or "Alexandrev" or "Alexandrov") written on it instead of "Alexander", true Macedonia and true Macedonians will remain Greek, as they always were."
This message was edited 2/22/2006, 1:13 AM
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I see what you are saying. Perhaps I will add the Greek name Dexter for my next update. :)
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That'll be good...
...since all of us who love this site are contributing towards its improvement, whenever necessary.
:)
"Until the day that an ancient inscription will be found with the name "Alexandrovski" (or "Alexandrev" or "Alexandrov") written on it instead of "Alexander", true Macedonia and true Macedonians will remain Greek, as they always were."
...since all of us who love this site are contributing towards its improvement, whenever necessary.
:)
"Until the day that an ancient inscription will be found with the name "Alexandrovski" (or "Alexandrev" or "Alexandrov") written on it instead of "Alexander", true Macedonia and true Macedonians will remain Greek, as they always were."
1
Furthermore...
...its interesting to note that words *dex- (as a prefix with the meaning of "right") have the same figurative meaning (dexterity). The word dexiotes (ÄÅÎÉÏÔÇÓ) in both classical and contemporary Greek means dexterity (http://www.perseus.org/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3D%2324088)
...its interesting to note that words *dex- (as a prefix with the meaning of "right") have the same figurative meaning (dexterity). The word dexiotes (ÄÅÎÉÏÔÇÓ) in both classical and contemporary Greek means dexterity (http://www.perseus.org/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3D%2324088)
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Surely a hilarious thing to say...
... even worse if there are stupid people in the real world who believe that... :(
But how anyone can deny facts, if they are there??? Definitely not a clever person... or maybe it is someone who simply refuses to acknowledge or accept the truth. Maybe then it'll do good to them to know some really immortal words by real people and not from a funny film character:
Isokrates, 436-338 BCE:
"There is not a possible way to inspire wisdom and honesty to those who are not predisposed for it."
Epicuros, 341-270 BCE:
"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish."
Platon, 427-348 BCE:
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools talk because they have to say something."
Pythagoras of Samos, 572-500 BCE:
"You cannot explain everything to everyone."
and lastly:
Socrates, 470-399 BCE:
"When two people have a dispute, the loser is actually the winner because he learns something new."
"Until the day that an ancient inscription will be found with the name "Alexandrovski" (or "Alexandrev" or "Alexandrov") written on it instead of "Alexander", true Macedonia and true Macedonians will remain Greek, as they always were."
... even worse if there are stupid people in the real world who believe that... :(
But how anyone can deny facts, if they are there??? Definitely not a clever person... or maybe it is someone who simply refuses to acknowledge or accept the truth. Maybe then it'll do good to them to know some really immortal words by real people and not from a funny film character:
Isokrates, 436-338 BCE:
"There is not a possible way to inspire wisdom and honesty to those who are not predisposed for it."
Epicuros, 341-270 BCE:
"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish."
Platon, 427-348 BCE:
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools talk because they have to say something."
Pythagoras of Samos, 572-500 BCE:
"You cannot explain everything to everyone."
and lastly:
Socrates, 470-399 BCE:
"When two people have a dispute, the loser is actually the winner because he learns something new."
"Until the day that an ancient inscription will be found with the name "Alexandrovski" (or "Alexandrev" or "Alexandrov") written on it instead of "Alexander", true Macedonia and true Macedonians will remain Greek, as they always were."
This message was edited 2/21/2006, 3:29 AM
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Ah, Kassios...
"The gods too are fond of a joke."
Aristotle
~ Ivayla,
skillfully disguised as a responsible adult
"The gods too are fond of a joke."
Aristotle
~ Ivayla,
skillfully disguised as a responsible adult
This message was edited 2/21/2006, 10:37 AM
1
Ok, thats better...! :)
Sorry for before, but it really pisses me off the fact that many people actually do use that phrase from the film as an insult, disguised as a joke...!
And as Diogenes said:
"I don't know your thoughts, so I don't know you."
:)
"Until the day that an ancient inscription will be found with the name "Alexandrovski" (or "Alexandrev" or "Alexandrov") written on it instead of "Alexander", true Macedonia and true Macedonians will remain Greek, as they always were."
Sorry for before, but it really pisses me off the fact that many people actually do use that phrase from the film as an insult, disguised as a joke...!
And as Diogenes said:
"I don't know your thoughts, so I don't know you."
:)
"Until the day that an ancient inscription will be found with the name "Alexandrovski" (or "Alexandrev" or "Alexandrov") written on it instead of "Alexander", true Macedonia and true Macedonians will remain Greek, as they always were."
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Pass me the windex ;)
1
OT: I like your quote
as nationalistic as it is :D
~ Ivayla,
skillfully disguised as a responsible adult
as nationalistic as it is :D
~ Ivayla,
skillfully disguised as a responsible adult
1
Lol, if telling the truth makes me a nationalist, then yes, I will proudly choose to be one!!!
"Until the day that an ancient inscription will be found with the name "Alexandrovski" written on it instead of "Alexander", true Macedonia and true Macedonians will remain Greek, as they always were."
"Until the day that an ancient inscription will be found with the name "Alexandrovski" written on it instead of "Alexander", true Macedonia and true Macedonians will remain Greek, as they always were."
1
Onomastics and cold war politics
It was the late Marshall Tito who added -ski endings to Bulgarian surnames in the region of today's FYROM, so as to generate a "macedonian" nationality (distinct from the Bulgarian) to serve his geopolitical priorities. As I understand, most "macedonians" in FYROM whose surname ends with -ski have Bulgarian great-grandparents whose surnames ended with -ev or -ov.
So Kassios, the chances you find a pre-1940s inscription with "Alexandrovski" are practically zero. As good sports, we should be on the outlook for Alexandrevs or Alexandrovs :P
It was the late Marshall Tito who added -ski endings to Bulgarian surnames in the region of today's FYROM, so as to generate a "macedonian" nationality (distinct from the Bulgarian) to serve his geopolitical priorities. As I understand, most "macedonians" in FYROM whose surname ends with -ski have Bulgarian great-grandparents whose surnames ended with -ev or -ov.
So Kassios, the chances you find a pre-1940s inscription with "Alexandrovski" are practically zero. As good sports, we should be on the outlook for Alexandrevs or Alexandrovs :P
1
Not exactly . . .
As the BtN entry for Dexter says, the name is the same as the Greek name you describe. However, the name Dexter that is in common use in English-speaking countries comes from an Old English surname. It is pure co-incidence that the surname takes the same form as a Greek name.
♦ Chrisell ♦
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us. - J.R.R. Tolkien.
As the BtN entry for Dexter says, the name is the same as the Greek name you describe. However, the name Dexter that is in common use in English-speaking countries comes from an Old English surname. It is pure co-incidence that the surname takes the same form as a Greek name.
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us. - J.R.R. Tolkien.
1
My argument actually is not for the first part of the BtN entry: "From a surname meaning "one who dyes" in Old English.", which I am not really familiar with, but for the second part of the entry: "It also coincides with the Latin word dexter meaning "right-handed, skilled", which I know is wrong.
What I am doing is providing actual historical information about the name Dexter in ancient Greek and the very first usage of the name in Greece.
"Until the day that an ancient inscription will be found with the name "Alexandrovski" written on it instead of "Alexander", true Macedonia and true Macedonians will remain Greek, as they always were."
This message was edited 2/19/2006, 7:49 AM
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But you DO know that Dexter does means right-handed and skilled right? Or are you saying that it only comes from ancient Greek and not from Latin?
To my sweet muse
Every time you rip my heart out
Every time you break it
I pick up the pen I hold in my hands
And write the most beautiful poems
But you know what
If it's alright by you
I'd rather be happy than a poet
Every time you rip my heart out
Every time you break it
I pick up the pen I hold in my hands
And write the most beautiful poems
But you know what
If it's alright by you
I'd rather be happy than a poet
1
I don't understand your question, I think I was very clear... Anyway I am repeating that part:
...It derives from the Greek word "dexiteros", a poetic form of the word "dexios", meaning right-handed, fortunate, skilled. The Latin word "dexter" derives from the Greek "dexiteros".
("A Greek-English Lexicon", Liddell and Scott, "Lexicon of the ancient Greek Language", I. Stamatakos, "Lexicon of the Latin Language", S. Koumanoudes
Of course Dexter means "right-handed, fortunate, skilled"!
"Until the day that an ancient inscription will be found with the name "Alexandrovski" written on it instead of "Alexander", true Macedonia and true Macedonians will remain Greek, as they always were."
...It derives from the Greek word "dexiteros", a poetic form of the word "dexios", meaning right-handed, fortunate, skilled. The Latin word "dexter" derives from the Greek "dexiteros".
("A Greek-English Lexicon", Liddell and Scott, "Lexicon of the ancient Greek Language", I. Stamatakos, "Lexicon of the Latin Language", S. Koumanoudes
Of course Dexter means "right-handed, fortunate, skilled"!
"Until the day that an ancient inscription will be found with the name "Alexandrovski" written on it instead of "Alexander", true Macedonia and true Macedonians will remain Greek, as they always were."
This message was edited 2/19/2006, 7:58 AM
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sorry, I misunderstood what you meant...
To my sweet muse
Every time you rip my heart out
Every time you break it
I pick up the pen I hold in my hands
And write the most beautiful poems
But you know what
If it's alright by you
I'd rather be happy than a poet
Every time you rip my heart out
Every time you break it
I pick up the pen I hold in my hands
And write the most beautiful poems
But you know what
If it's alright by you
I'd rather be happy than a poet
1