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ArchivesRe: Stop spreading disinformation Pavlos!
in reply to a message by BibleRiot
In your original post you assert the following:
1) That "pasha" was not Ali's title (as Ottoman governor), but instead that "pasha" was his *albanish* middle name meaning saw -- I wonder, were all the other Pashas you mention only by coincidence military governors but in fact had names derived for the *albanish* word for "saw"? :)
2) That "Tepelena" was his surname, whereas in fact it was the town in northern Epirus where he was born.
3) That Ali Pasha was Albanian, whereas he was an Ottoman Turk.
I quote from *The Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia, 6th ed. © 2003, Columbia University Press*:
"Ali Pasha , 1744?–1822, Turkish pasha [military governor] of Yannina (now Ioánnina, Greece), a province of the Ottoman Empire (Turkey)".
And with all due respect, I will take the definition of Columbia University over yours *sans voire*.
CONCLUSION: Nothing in the stuff you quoted supports your above assertions...so please stop insulting our intelligence with such ndyrësirë...
1) That "pasha" was not Ali's title (as Ottoman governor), but instead that "pasha" was his *albanish* middle name meaning saw -- I wonder, were all the other Pashas you mention only by coincidence military governors but in fact had names derived for the *albanish* word for "saw"? :)
2) That "Tepelena" was his surname, whereas in fact it was the town in northern Epirus where he was born.
3) That Ali Pasha was Albanian, whereas he was an Ottoman Turk.
I quote from *The Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia, 6th ed. © 2003, Columbia University Press*:
"Ali Pasha , 1744?–1822, Turkish pasha [military governor] of Yannina (now Ioánnina, Greece), a province of the Ottoman Empire (Turkey)".
And with all due respect, I will take the definition of Columbia University over yours *sans voire*.
CONCLUSION: Nothing in the stuff you quoted supports your above assertions...so please stop insulting our intelligence with such ndyrësirë...
1
Replies
born 1744, Tepelenë, Albania, Ottoman Empire
died February 5 [Jan. 24, Old Style], 1822, Janina, Ottoman Empire [now Ioánnina, Gr.]
byname Lion of Janina Albanian brigand who, by murder and intrigue, became pasha, or provincial governor, of Janina from 1788. He extended his capricious rule within the Ottoman Empire over much of Albania and Macedonia, Epirus, Thessaly, and the Morea.
His father, Veli, bey of Tepelenë, died a poor man…
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=5797&tocid=0&query=ali%20pasha%20tepelena&ct=
died February 5 [Jan. 24, Old Style], 1822, Janina, Ottoman Empire [now Ioánnina, Gr.]
byname Lion of Janina Albanian brigand who, by murder and intrigue, became pasha, or provincial governor, of Janina from 1788. He extended his capricious rule within the Ottoman Empire over much of Albania and Macedonia, Epirus, Thessaly, and the Morea.
His father, Veli, bey of Tepelenë, died a poor man…
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=5797&tocid=0&query=ali%20pasha%20tepelena&ct=
1
Thanks for supporting my argument, Constantin/Kassandri/BibleRiot!
"..by murder and intrigue, BECAME PASHA, OR PROVINCIAL GOVERNOR, of Janina".
So he *became* a PASHA, his "middle name" was not the "albanish" "pasha" meaning "saw" as you erroneously claim. And my whole argument was that PASHA was his title not his name!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As for Ali's nationality: Ali lived at a time before "nationalism" was born. At the time, religious identity was the determining factor rather than "national" identity. This is why all Moslems in the Empire identified with the Ottoman Turks, whereas all Christians (Greeks, Slavs, some Albanians etc) called themselves *Romioi*, i.e., descendants of the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium).
So whether he was Albanian, Turkish or Eskimo for that matter meant nothing at the time: he was a Moslem Ottoman.
Nationalism along the lines of "Greek, Albanian, etc" was fostered much later, and signalled the end of the Ottoman empire.
"..by murder and intrigue, BECAME PASHA, OR PROVINCIAL GOVERNOR, of Janina".
So he *became* a PASHA, his "middle name" was not the "albanish" "pasha" meaning "saw" as you erroneously claim. And my whole argument was that PASHA was his title not his name!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As for Ali's nationality: Ali lived at a time before "nationalism" was born. At the time, religious identity was the determining factor rather than "national" identity. This is why all Moslems in the Empire identified with the Ottoman Turks, whereas all Christians (Greeks, Slavs, some Albanians etc) called themselves *Romioi*, i.e., descendants of the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium).
So whether he was Albanian, Turkish or Eskimo for that matter meant nothing at the time: he was a Moslem Ottoman.
Nationalism along the lines of "Greek, Albanian, etc" was fostered much later, and signalled the end of the Ottoman empire.
1