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ArchivesRe: Niamh
in reply to a message by lizagirl
Ah, and it has been discussed on this message board before:
http://www.behindthename.com/comment/view.php?name=niamh
The poster Deas23242 gave 2 answers, quoted below:
For the Welsh person who is not sure how to pronounce Niamh. Mh in Irish is NOT like the mh in Welsh which is an unvoiced m as in ym Mhen-y-bont. No it is pronounced like the soft mutated form of m in Welsh which is written f in Welsh & pronounced v. Just as the Welsh word mawr "big" becomes fawr [pronounced /vowr/ after a feminine noun so the Irish word mór "big" is written mhór & pronounced /vo:r/ after a feminine noun. E.G. Welsh: y garreg fawr = Irish: an charraig mhór = the big rock
So Niamh is pronounced Niaf in Welsh or Niav in English. Some native speakers of Irish pronounce the mh with a slight nasal tinge and this was perhaps the normal pronunciation in earlier times.
-- Deas23242 7/7/2008
Niamh should become Néimhe in the genitive case & should in former times have become Néimh in the dative case. [The dative case is becoming archaic in Irish today [except in cases where it has itself replaced the nominative]]. But though the genitive is much more usual in modern usage, this does not seem to apply to many personal names. An bhfaca tú leabhar Niamh? would be a more usual usage today than the more correct an bhfaca tú leabhar Néimhe? perhaps.
One explanation for this might be that the name was not in common use as a girl's name in earlier centuries and only existed in the story of Oisín mac Fhinn going to Tír na nÓg with Niamh Chinn Óir [Bright-(one) of (the) Head of Gold]
Searching all the names in the 1911 census for county Dublin there was one Niamh & one Neave. These two were both young children which suggests that the name had not been used in the 19th century.
-- Deas23242 7/8/2008
http://www.behindthename.com/comment/view.php?name=niamh
The poster Deas23242 gave 2 answers, quoted below:
For the Welsh person who is not sure how to pronounce Niamh. Mh in Irish is NOT like the mh in Welsh which is an unvoiced m as in ym Mhen-y-bont. No it is pronounced like the soft mutated form of m in Welsh which is written f in Welsh & pronounced v. Just as the Welsh word mawr "big" becomes fawr [pronounced /vowr/ after a feminine noun so the Irish word mór "big" is written mhór & pronounced /vo:r/ after a feminine noun. E.G. Welsh: y garreg fawr = Irish: an charraig mhór = the big rock
So Niamh is pronounced Niaf in Welsh or Niav in English. Some native speakers of Irish pronounce the mh with a slight nasal tinge and this was perhaps the normal pronunciation in earlier times.
-- Deas23242 7/7/2008
Niamh should become Néimhe in the genitive case & should in former times have become Néimh in the dative case. [The dative case is becoming archaic in Irish today [except in cases where it has itself replaced the nominative]]. But though the genitive is much more usual in modern usage, this does not seem to apply to many personal names. An bhfaca tú leabhar Niamh? would be a more usual usage today than the more correct an bhfaca tú leabhar Néimhe? perhaps.
One explanation for this might be that the name was not in common use as a girl's name in earlier centuries and only existed in the story of Oisín mac Fhinn going to Tír na nÓg with Niamh Chinn Óir [Bright-(one) of (the) Head of Gold]
Searching all the names in the 1911 census for county Dublin there was one Niamh & one Neave. These two were both young children which suggests that the name had not been used in the 19th century.
-- Deas23242 7/8/2008
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Replies
Oh, I didn't know that...Even if I did, I must admit, this explanation (to a person who, like me, has no knowledge of the Irish and Welsh languages and cultures) is even more confusing than the original puzzle of the name itself. Was the poster saying that the proper pronunciation of Niamh in English-speaking countries is "NEE-ahv"?
Anyways, thanks for the info!
Anyways, thanks for the info!
1