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ArchivesAubrey is really unisex? I mean REALLY???
Oh my, I am so upset! This was part of a reply I got to a message yesterday.
"As someone who studied Norman etymology and onomastics intensely at university, I have to say that Aubrey is legitimately unisex, actually; the feminine name is the Norman form of Albreda ('Al-' becomes 'Au-' and -'eda' becomes '-ey'--think of how we get Audrey from Aetheldreda) and has nothing to do with the masculine name which derives from Alberic. After the Conquest Aubrey was not uncommon among women in England. There are quite a few female Aubreys to be found in the old European dynasties. One might be surprised just how many names are and have been historically unisex. Even the best books and sites perpetuate inaccurate or incomplete information; this includes BtN."
I nearly cried when I read that. Okay, I'll be honest. I DID cry when I read that. Tears welled up really. I was heartbroken. Behind the Name says Aubrey comes from a totally different place, Alberic, and that it is from Germanic elements. It says nothing about Norman etymology. Please help!! I really, REALLY, need to know which of these is correct. I am using the name Aubrey for a project, but cannot use it if it does not truly come from Alberic.
Also, since she said that Aubrey comes from Albreda...um...that name isn't listed here but it sounds like a girls name to me. Is it? And if Aubrey came from Albreda and was used by women wouldn't that make it simply a girls name and not unisex at all?? I'm not very good at this stuff but...I think the tears are welling up again!
Also, what does Albreda mean?
Thank you so much in advance!!!
Melissa
"As someone who studied Norman etymology and onomastics intensely at university, I have to say that Aubrey is legitimately unisex, actually; the feminine name is the Norman form of Albreda ('Al-' becomes 'Au-' and -'eda' becomes '-ey'--think of how we get Audrey from Aetheldreda) and has nothing to do with the masculine name which derives from Alberic. After the Conquest Aubrey was not uncommon among women in England. There are quite a few female Aubreys to be found in the old European dynasties. One might be surprised just how many names are and have been historically unisex. Even the best books and sites perpetuate inaccurate or incomplete information; this includes BtN."
I nearly cried when I read that. Okay, I'll be honest. I DID cry when I read that. Tears welled up really. I was heartbroken. Behind the Name says Aubrey comes from a totally different place, Alberic, and that it is from Germanic elements. It says nothing about Norman etymology. Please help!! I really, REALLY, need to know which of these is correct. I am using the name Aubrey for a project, but cannot use it if it does not truly come from Alberic.
Also, since she said that Aubrey comes from Albreda...um...that name isn't listed here but it sounds like a girls name to me. Is it? And if Aubrey came from Albreda and was used by women wouldn't that make it simply a girls name and not unisex at all?? I'm not very good at this stuff but...I think the tears are welling up again!
Also, what does Albreda mean?
Thank you so much in advance!!!
Melissa
1
Replies
"As someone who studied Norman etymology and onomastics intensely at university, I have to say that Aubrey is legitimately unisex, actually; the feminine name is the Norman form of Albreda ('Al-' becomes 'Au-' and -'eda' becomes '-ey'--think of how we get Audrey from Aetheldreda) and has nothing to do with the masculine name which derives from Alberic."
Upon reading this farther, I see what the responder was telling you. As I had always thought, this person isn't telling you that Aubrey isn't a form of Alberic -- it is. But the FEMALE name Aubrey isn't a form of Alberic -- it is a form of Albreda. (I know this person from another forum, and would defer to her in all matters of Norman names! But I just misread her ...)
An example would be the nickname Pat. You can have a Patrick nn'd Pat, and a Martha nn'd Pat, and even though the nickname PAT is unisex, the names it derives from don't have related etymologies. I hope that clears it up!
Upon reading this farther, I see what the responder was telling you. As I had always thought, this person isn't telling you that Aubrey isn't a form of Alberic -- it is. But the FEMALE name Aubrey isn't a form of Alberic -- it is a form of Albreda. (I know this person from another forum, and would defer to her in all matters of Norman names! But I just misread her ...)
An example would be the nickname Pat. You can have a Patrick nn'd Pat, and a Martha nn'd Pat, and even though the nickname PAT is unisex, the names it derives from don't have related etymologies. I hope that clears it up!
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She mentions that it is unisex -- it was used as a form of Alberic, whether or not it ORIGINATED as a form of Alberic. It could have been adopted as a form of Albert AFTER the fact, but if your project depends on it only coming from Alberic, I would choose another name, if possible.
As far as the Albred / Albreda thing goes, like the responder said to you, many names were historically unisex. Lots and lots more than you imagine, I can guaruntee! No one would blink to hear Aubrey on either sex. Gender lines in names aren't as black and white as people like to believe.
As far as the Albred / Albreda thing goes, like the responder said to you, many names were historically unisex. Lots and lots more than you imagine, I can guaruntee! No one would blink to hear Aubrey on either sex. Gender lines in names aren't as black and white as people like to believe.
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well I've never heard of it coming from the Normans before, the only sources I've ever seen have said it's Germanic. But that's not to doubt the person who told you that yesterday, I'm just saying that having that knowledge is probably fairly uncommon, so most people would think of it as only a boy's name.
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I found that Albreda is the female version of Albred. (Like a Michael and Michaela type of thing.) So doesn't that stand to reason that maybe Albred came first and therefore, Aubrey was the nn for Albred first? The instances I've found showing Aubrey coming from either of these names all just show it as a nn, not a name on its own.
What I need to know is this--if it simply began as a nn--was it more of a nn that was a "boy's nickname name" that just happened to be used on girls or was it intended for girls? Example: Would it have been boyish to hear Aubrey for Albreda just as it is boyish to hear Ollie for Olivia? Or was Aubrey a nn name that was intended for girls as in Livy for Olivia? Albreda de Lisours was nicknamed Aubrey. Would that have been considered a boyish name for her to have been called? (Like Mickey would seem boyish today for a girl named Michaela)
Thanks again from a very confused,
Melissa
What I need to know is this--if it simply began as a nn--was it more of a nn that was a "boy's nickname name" that just happened to be used on girls or was it intended for girls? Example: Would it have been boyish to hear Aubrey for Albreda just as it is boyish to hear Ollie for Olivia? Or was Aubrey a nn name that was intended for girls as in Livy for Olivia? Albreda de Lisours was nicknamed Aubrey. Would that have been considered a boyish name for her to have been called? (Like Mickey would seem boyish today for a girl named Michaela)
Thanks again from a very confused,
Melissa
1