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ArchivesIs it legit to use Noah on a girl?
I need advice from someone who speaks Hebrew or knows enough about the language to help me with this. Please no speculations, just answer if you really do know something about this or have a dictionary etc in which it is explained.
Is Noah with an H legit for a girl?
Here is what I know so far:
- In Hebrew the male name Noah is pronounced more like Noach and not like NO-a
- In Hebrew the female name Noah, Noa is pronounced NO-a
- The male and female Noah have different meanings
- There is a female Noah in the bible who is sometimes spelled as Noah and sometimes as Noa, the daughter of Zelophehad
- NO-a is the number 1 girls name in Israel. In popularity charts it is translated as Noa, not as Noah.
- However, in Hebrew it is spelled with more characters than the male Noah which implies to me it should have that final H.
- Noah and Noa are both pronounced NO-a in English speaking countries. The female Noah is pronounced NO-a. Is it okay to spell it Noah, because it sounds the same as in Hebrew when we pronounce it? Or would someone from Israel think it's NO-ach?
I really need help with this. Any help is appreciated.
Is Noah with an H legit for a girl?
Here is what I know so far:
- In Hebrew the male name Noah is pronounced more like Noach and not like NO-a
- In Hebrew the female name Noah, Noa is pronounced NO-a
- The male and female Noah have different meanings
- There is a female Noah in the bible who is sometimes spelled as Noah and sometimes as Noa, the daughter of Zelophehad
- NO-a is the number 1 girls name in Israel. In popularity charts it is translated as Noa, not as Noah.
- However, in Hebrew it is spelled with more characters than the male Noah which implies to me it should have that final H.
- Noah and Noa are both pronounced NO-a in English speaking countries. The female Noah is pronounced NO-a. Is it okay to spell it Noah, because it sounds the same as in Hebrew when we pronounce it? Or would someone from Israel think it's NO-ach?
I really need help with this. Any help is appreciated.
This message was edited 4/18/2009, 3:17 PM
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Replies
I have worked in Nursery School for almost 20 years and have seen many variations on names. In choosing our daughter's name, we debated the origin spelling of Annwfn and the more common spelling of Annwyn. The latter won out.
My advice is to go with what your preference is. Noah is known as a boy's name in Canada and your daughter would forever have to explain her name, but as someone who grew up with Michelyn as a name, it's not always a bad thing to be unique.
However, I personally like Noa better. It looks feminine and is very unique -- I haven't had ONE Noa in my classrooms, but have had six boys named Noah. Three of those were in the past two years.
I'd love to hear what wins out... are you expecting?
My advice is to go with what your preference is. Noah is known as a boy's name in Canada and your daughter would forever have to explain her name, but as someone who grew up with Michelyn as a name, it's not always a bad thing to be unique.
However, I personally like Noa better. It looks feminine and is very unique -- I haven't had ONE Noa in my classrooms, but have had six boys named Noah. Three of those were in the past two years.
I'd love to hear what wins out... are you expecting?
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Why would anyone give a girl a lifetime of explanations as a kind of crazy christening present, like the curse on Sleeping Beauty? Names like Francis and Leslie are losing ground, presumably because of their unisex nature ... why add another to the list? It's so easy to just drop the -h and let her educate people when they get it wrong.
Or, of course, to name her Nora, Noreen or Nerina :)
Or, of course, to name her Nora, Noreen or Nerina :)
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Well, it's legit to use Noah so why shouldn't I give her the spelling I prefer? It makes me crazy how people always claim boys names get stolen by girls. NO-a (pr.) is strictly female. In Hebrew Noah (male would be pr. like Noach). So from its origin NO-a is feminine and the boys have stolen this one from the girls (at least the pronunciation).
With a feminine middle name that would be listed on all documents and class lists she wouldn't have any problems at all.
With a feminine middle name that would be listed on all documents and class lists she wouldn't have any problems at all.
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In fact,
Noah (masculine and pronounced NO-a) is not a stolen feminine name but a traditional evolution in English.
The [x] sound (KH) doesn't exist in English, so it seems logical that the name could had been adapted with the [h] sound at the end, because this one is the sound closer to [x] in English. Since is a soft sound, at the end of the word and on an non-stressed syllable, the change from [h] to no sound would not be surprising at all.
NO-a (pr.) is then not strictly female. It is a case of homophony, simply.
Noah (masculine and pronounced NO-a) is not a stolen feminine name but a traditional evolution in English.
The [x] sound (KH) doesn't exist in English, so it seems logical that the name could had been adapted with the [h] sound at the end, because this one is the sound closer to [x] in English. Since is a soft sound, at the end of the word and on an non-stressed syllable, the change from [h] to no sound would not be surprising at all.
NO-a (pr.) is then not strictly female. It is a case of homophony, simply.
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Yep, sure it hasn't really been stolen, just been adapted. I didn't mean it that way, sorry :P But I asked my teacher (she's from Israel) and she pronounced Noah and Noach differently. I mean, yeah it's not a huge difference but you definitely hear it.
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But it is different in English and in Hebrew
All the English names from Hebrew origin are adaptations/evolutions from the originals, every single one. In some cases, the difference from the original is bigger that in other cases, depending on the existence of the sounds, or close, in both languages.
The pronunciation of Noa/Noah in Hebrew and in English can be close, but it is not the same, because in English the vocalic sounds are very different and they have changed a lot throughout time. So, the pronunciation of Noah in English also "has been adapted" (to use your words). It is just that two different "adaptations" (by two different paths) have ended in the same pronunciation (which, by the way, it is not an unusual situation in most of the languages).
All the English names from Hebrew origin are adaptations/evolutions from the originals, every single one. In some cases, the difference from the original is bigger that in other cases, depending on the existence of the sounds, or close, in both languages.
The pronunciation of Noa/Noah in Hebrew and in English can be close, but it is not the same, because in English the vocalic sounds are very different and they have changed a lot throughout time. So, the pronunciation of Noah in English also "has been adapted" (to use your words). It is just that two different "adaptations" (by two different paths) have ended in the same pronunciation (which, by the way, it is not an unusual situation in most of the languages).
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The N-O-A-H spelling for a girl would be fine. The only way I could see it being confused with the NO-ach pronounciation is if you are in Israel or in a community where a significant population of those of Isreali descent.
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It doesn't matter
The Hebrew writing system doesn't have very much in common with the English one. There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to write it in the English alphabet, because it is not an English name. It is a Hebrew name and written in Hebrew letters. It's not pronounced in English like it is in Hebrew, so it has no reason to be spelled the exact same way (And we don't even have the same letters, so it can't be spelled the same way).
The only consideration when transcripting names is tradition - traditionally the letter heh can be translated to "H", as in Sarah, Dinah, etc., so it's certainly "legit" to transcript ðåòä as Noah. OTOH you have Rebecca and Jemima, for instance, in which an H is traditionally not added. It's all down to personal preference in this case - and since Noah is a pretty common name for a boy, I prefer to spell my name as Noa (when I ever need to write it in English) so that it's clear I'm a girl, and the H is unnecessary IMO.
The Hebrew writing system doesn't have very much in common with the English one. There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to write it in the English alphabet, because it is not an English name. It is a Hebrew name and written in Hebrew letters. It's not pronounced in English like it is in Hebrew, so it has no reason to be spelled the exact same way (And we don't even have the same letters, so it can't be spelled the same way).
The only consideration when transcripting names is tradition - traditionally the letter heh can be translated to "H", as in Sarah, Dinah, etc., so it's certainly "legit" to transcript ðåòä as Noah. OTOH you have Rebecca and Jemima, for instance, in which an H is traditionally not added. It's all down to personal preference in this case - and since Noah is a pretty common name for a boy, I prefer to spell my name as Noa (when I ever need to write it in English) so that it's clear I'm a girl, and the H is unnecessary IMO.
This message was edited 4/19/2009, 1:29 PM
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The male Noah`s Hebrew letters: (remember that hebrewis read from right to left)
first letter is the n sound
next letter, when paired with the dot above it represents the o sound
final letter, the dot below represnts the a sound, as in "father" and the hump-shape does represent the "ch" sound, but is pronounced as in Gaelic, or the KH sound in armenian. You know, a gagging sound from the back of the throat. It is not pronounced as in chair.
best representation: no-aukh
The female Noa(h)`s hebrew letters:
first two letters are the same as in the male
next letter (the "y" shaped one) only serves as a "base" for the little t shape underneath. The little t can be pronounced like the a in father or the aw in saw. slight difference, but worth noting.
last letter is the equivalent of h in english
best representation:no-aw or no-au
Sorry that is all I can provide and sorry I don`t have a Hebrew font on my computer.
first letter is the n sound
next letter, when paired with the dot above it represents the o sound
final letter, the dot below represnts the a sound, as in "father" and the hump-shape does represent the "ch" sound, but is pronounced as in Gaelic, or the KH sound in armenian. You know, a gagging sound from the back of the throat. It is not pronounced as in chair.
best representation: no-aukh
The female Noa(h)`s hebrew letters:
first two letters are the same as in the male
next letter (the "y" shaped one) only serves as a "base" for the little t shape underneath. The little t can be pronounced like the a in father or the aw in saw. slight difference, but worth noting.
last letter is the equivalent of h in english
best representation:no-aw or no-au
Sorry that is all I can provide and sorry I don`t have a Hebrew font on my computer.
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The legitimacy or not depends on the final language and the transcription system used. Some systems transcript the final with he as -ah (Deborah, Noah, Sarah...), others transcript it as -a (Debora, Noa, Sara...), others as -à (Deborà, Milcà, Tirsà, Noà, Sarà...), etc. Even in languages where two systems coexist because both suit the final language, it is usually more common a form because of the tradition.
In the specific case of Noa/Noah, both forms are legit (as is Noà) just as Noah/Noé/Noè are legit forms from the hebrew N-.H.
In the specific case of Noa/Noah, both forms are legit (as is Noà) just as Noah/Noé/Noè are legit forms from the hebrew N-.H.
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