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I have been trying to research the name Shamardal which is the name of a thoroughbred racehorse now retired, who is the sire of my own colt. I believe that it is Arabic but the only reference I can find is to Al-Shamardal, in Tales from the 1001 Nights.
Can anyone help me with an interpretation of what Al-shamardal or Shamardal means, I would be most appreciative.
thanks
Rod
Can anyone help me with an interpretation of what Al-shamardal or Shamardal means, I would be most appreciative.
thanks
Rod
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Replies
I have a grandmother of Turkish origin. Her last name is Al Shamardal
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precious stone
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Rod, I have not been able to figure out what Al-Shamardal or Shamardal means. However, I found the word shamar wich means clear night with stars (but no moon or moonlight). Though, I do not know if that word actually is related to Shamardal.
I also asked my Arabic friends about it but the only thing the could tell me is that it is a proper (sur)name. It's not very common but it's not unheard of either.
My guess would be that even though it's used as a name in Arabic speaking countries it most likely has its origin in the Persian laguage.
I also asked my Arabic friends about it but the only thing the could tell me is that it is a proper (sur)name. It's not very common but it's not unheard of either.
My guess would be that even though it's used as a name in Arabic speaking countries it most likely has its origin in the Persian laguage.
This message was edited 5/15/2008, 5:57 AM
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Since I know neither the language, nor the script, but I know a very little about the general structure of both of these, and using unicode tables, I tried googling again.
I think the word شمردل is pronounced shamardal and according to an Arabic English dictionary http://tinyurl.com/66cfxy (pg 555 second column top; remember to get to increasing page numbers by going up) it means long, swift, fine, handsome. Looking at related words, the root شمر (sheen-meem-reh) seems to be the root, but that is as far as I got before I had to stop playing around.
שמר (shin-mem-resh) in Hebrew seems to mean to put a hedge around, protect, or watch. http://tinyurl.com/67mx7u pg. 174 says shamar in Persian is a river. So, there I have now poured out all my confusion ...
I think the word شمردل is pronounced shamardal and according to an Arabic English dictionary http://tinyurl.com/66cfxy (pg 555 second column top; remember to get to increasing page numbers by going up) it means long, swift, fine, handsome. Looking at related words, the root شمر (sheen-meem-reh) seems to be the root, but that is as far as I got before I had to stop playing around.
שמר (shin-mem-resh) in Hebrew seems to mean to put a hedge around, protect, or watch. http://tinyurl.com/67mx7u pg. 174 says shamar in Persian is a river. So, there I have now poured out all my confusion ...
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Well, I'm as confused as you are. Mostly because my very extensive dictionary do not at all include shamardal. It is however a dictionary over Modern Standard Arabic. Maybe shamardal is not "modern"...
I agree with you that the root should be sheen-meem-reh but that do not explain lam-dal, wich to me is not a known suffix. Is this one of the few exceptions? However, it seems like you solved the mystery around shamardal. It most likely means handsome - Al-Shamardal should therefore mean The Handsome.
Thank you for you're input on my posts, I really appreciate it.
I agree with you that the root should be sheen-meem-reh but that do not explain lam-dal, wich to me is not a known suffix. Is this one of the few exceptions? However, it seems like you solved the mystery around shamardal. It most likely means handsome - Al-Shamardal should therefore mean The Handsome.
Thank you for you're input on my posts, I really appreciate it.
This message was edited 5/20/2008, 2:44 AM
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Thanks for the kind words.
The dictionary I linked to is Arabic English dictionary by F. Steinglass (http://books.google.com/books?id=3JXQh09i2JwC) which was published in 2005. The first sentence of the preface (http://tinyurl.com/42z9v8) says it is for ordinary readers who want to read texts of `wider etymological range', so may be I chanced upon a good dictionary.
The dictionary I linked to is Arabic English dictionary by F. Steinglass (http://books.google.com/books?id=3JXQh09i2JwC) which was published in 2005. The first sentence of the preface (http://tinyurl.com/42z9v8) says it is for ordinary readers who want to read texts of `wider etymological range', so may be I chanced upon a good dictionary.
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I have tried to find the name/word in my Arabic-English dictionary (and on the internet) with no luck. It could be that it's just a name possibly with a derived meaning, which I can't find. Normally Arabic words has three 'root letters' this word has at least four wich makes it even more difficult to search for and find.
I could ask some of my Arabic friends and see what they think. I'll be back when I have more info.
I could ask some of my Arabic friends and see what they think. I'll be back when I have more info.
This message was edited 5/12/2008, 3:40 AM
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thanks a lot terese any help is much appreciated
Rod
Rod
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Four isolated ignorant comments:
I do not know enough to figure out why this should be Arabic and not Persian.
Googling, the spelling Shamardal seems to appear only in the Arabian Nights or horseplay context. I wonder whether footnote 56 at http://www.wollamshram.ca/1001/Vol_7/v7notes.htm is useful here.
Googling for the spelling Samardal shows its use in names etc. including both al- (or as- ) suffixes of personal names and as place names. I have no idea whether this is related.
Though I have no idea about any of these languages, http://tinyurl.com/56tv9o superficially seems to talk about extended roots and their grammatical status in Arabic, and mentions Samardal in footnote 15: at least somebody who knows more about the transliteration scheme than me can recreate the spelling in persian/arabic script.
I do not know enough to figure out why this should be Arabic and not Persian.
Googling, the spelling Shamardal seems to appear only in the Arabian Nights or horseplay context. I wonder whether footnote 56 at http://www.wollamshram.ca/1001/Vol_7/v7notes.htm is useful here.
Googling for the spelling Samardal shows its use in names etc. including both al- (or as- ) suffixes of personal names and as place names. I have no idea whether this is related.
Though I have no idea about any of these languages, http://tinyurl.com/56tv9o superficially seems to talk about extended roots and their grammatical status in Arabic, and mentions Samardal in footnote 15: at least somebody who knows more about the transliteration scheme than me can recreate the spelling in persian/arabic script.
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Thanks Pavlos, I was more hoping for an English translation or explanation of where the name originated, ie was it a name invented in literature or an actual person and who they were.
I must say though that I am impressed with your work. It could be rather controversial if I named our horse Allah's Drama.
Rod
I must say though that I am impressed with your work. It could be rather controversial if I named our horse Allah's Drama.
Rod
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...yep, you would risk having a Fatwa issued against you (and your infidel horse)!
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