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ArchivesRe: The custom of monastic names.
in reply to a message by Jörmungandr
Tanmoy's explanation works for Catholics as well, as far as I know. What I don't know is whether the confirmation name which Catholics choose for themselves has any legal status: if you're Emily Susan Jones and choose Mary at confirmation, I imagine that would just be personal to you and nothing the law would bother about.
Something I find odd, which I think is disappearing, is taking a male name if you're a woman. Sister Leonardo (I've met one). Sister John Paul. But not Brother Margaret, as far as I know.
In English-speaking South Africa, and elsewhere too I would guess, women who become nuns are now free to retain their birth names if they wish, probably post-Vatican 2, so instead of selecting a saint's name or a (suitable) biblical one you could remain Sister Deirdre, Sister Jennifer or Sister Gillian. As Austrian nun I knew about 30-40 years ago had been known by her first given name 'in the world', but when she became a nun she used her middle name, Gerlinde. Not sure if it's a saint's name or not, but it would have solved the problem of changing one's legal papers. (We were students together, and she was mostly known as Sister Lixl, just as we were known to the lecturers as Mr Thorpe, Miss Davies or whoever. I called her Gerlinde because we were friends; not Sister Gerlinde though because I'm not Catholic.)
To return briefly to Sr Gill, another friend: she was a nun for 12 years, starting straight from school, and then left. Her identity document(with photograph), which South Africans have to carry, showed her in her nun's habit. This was fun when she went to buy wine for a family party and was asked for her ID ...
This is a pretty Loungeish response ... but I don't Lounge ...
All the best
Something I find odd, which I think is disappearing, is taking a male name if you're a woman. Sister Leonardo (I've met one). Sister John Paul. But not Brother Margaret, as far as I know.
In English-speaking South Africa, and elsewhere too I would guess, women who become nuns are now free to retain their birth names if they wish, probably post-Vatican 2, so instead of selecting a saint's name or a (suitable) biblical one you could remain Sister Deirdre, Sister Jennifer or Sister Gillian. As Austrian nun I knew about 30-40 years ago had been known by her first given name 'in the world', but when she became a nun she used her middle name, Gerlinde. Not sure if it's a saint's name or not, but it would have solved the problem of changing one's legal papers. (We were students together, and she was mostly known as Sister Lixl, just as we were known to the lecturers as Mr Thorpe, Miss Davies or whoever. I called her Gerlinde because we were friends; not Sister Gerlinde though because I'm not Catholic.)
To return briefly to Sr Gill, another friend: she was a nun for 12 years, starting straight from school, and then left. Her identity document(with photograph), which South Africans have to carry, showed her in her nun's habit. This was fun when she went to buy wine for a family party and was asked for her ID ...
This is a pretty Loungeish response ... but I don't Lounge ...
All the best
1
Replies
Two clarifications
The use of confirmation names is a tradition among Catholic people in English speaking countries, in some German speaking countries and Poland, but it is completely unknown in most of the Catholic communities. It is not a Catholic rite, just a costum allowed by Church, like other costums in other countries/cultures: three names in the baptism, blessing of palms on Palm Sunday, blessing of animals on Saint Anthony's day, etc.
And about male names in nuns, there are two reasons.
The first one is the self humiliation. Chosing a male name, and to be called by it all the days the rest of her life, was a way to show humility and to abandon mundane trivialities and/or decorations (like hair, clothes, jewellery...) and a way to mortificate oneself (like to be barefoot, to use some devices as the cilicium...). It was just the same reason for some humility names among first Christians (Mucius, e.g.) or for some odd names among Puritans.
The second one is the devotion to a saint or to a prominent Catholic character, basically the Pople. That is why it was possible to find nuns named Sor María de San Andrés or Sor José and Sor Andrés and nuns named Sister John Paul.
The use of feminine names among monks is resticted, to my best knowledge, to related with Our Lady names or to Catholic misteries and faith matters, just like among the general population: Guadalupe, Rosario, Trinidad...
The use of confirmation names is a tradition among Catholic people in English speaking countries, in some German speaking countries and Poland, but it is completely unknown in most of the Catholic communities. It is not a Catholic rite, just a costum allowed by Church, like other costums in other countries/cultures: three names in the baptism, blessing of palms on Palm Sunday, blessing of animals on Saint Anthony's day, etc.
And about male names in nuns, there are two reasons.
The first one is the self humiliation. Chosing a male name, and to be called by it all the days the rest of her life, was a way to show humility and to abandon mundane trivialities and/or decorations (like hair, clothes, jewellery...) and a way to mortificate oneself (like to be barefoot, to use some devices as the cilicium...). It was just the same reason for some humility names among first Christians (Mucius, e.g.) or for some odd names among Puritans.
The second one is the devotion to a saint or to a prominent Catholic character, basically the Pople. That is why it was possible to find nuns named Sor María de San Andrés or Sor José and Sor Andrés and nuns named Sister John Paul.
The use of feminine names among monks is resticted, to my best knowledge, to related with Our Lady names or to Catholic misteries and faith matters, just like among the general population: Guadalupe, Rosario, Trinidad...
1
That's interesting, Lumia - thanks! As I say, I'm not a Catholic so what little I know, I get from friends.
Can't help wondering, though, if a male name is humiliating for a woman, why would a female name not be humiliating for a man? Very strange ...
All the best
Can't help wondering, though, if a male name is humiliating for a woman, why would a female name not be humiliating for a man? Very strange ...
All the best
1
Your point is very interesting and very true, why the concept of humiliation is different for men and for women.
I suspect (and that is only a personal oppinion) that is consequence of the male chauvinism of most European cultures (the bottom line in religion is "there is not worthy woman, but Virgin Mary" and it is still alive in the ban against women at Mount Athos) and the inconscient attempt to avoid to be confused with a homosexual or effeminate person; the femenine homosexuality was simply unconceivable or ignorated by Europeans throughout centuries and, for instance, it was not prosecuted in Victorian England because Queen Victoria refused to believe that "something as abnormal" as two female lovers was possible.
Maybe there were monks with femenine names (and not related with Our Lady), but I'm unaware of that.
I suspect (and that is only a personal oppinion) that is consequence of the male chauvinism of most European cultures (the bottom line in religion is "there is not worthy woman, but Virgin Mary" and it is still alive in the ban against women at Mount Athos) and the inconscient attempt to avoid to be confused with a homosexual or effeminate person; the femenine homosexuality was simply unconceivable or ignorated by Europeans throughout centuries and, for instance, it was not prosecuted in Victorian England because Queen Victoria refused to believe that "something as abnormal" as two female lovers was possible.
Maybe there were monks with femenine names (and not related with Our Lady), but I'm unaware of that.
1