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ArchivesThe custom of monastic names.
I'm not quite certain that this is the right message board to post this thread in; I was tempted to post this in The Lounge, but ultimately I decided that it was best to try it here first. :)
To my understanding, in the Roman Catholic religion it is custom that one who becomes a nun or a monk (depending on the sex) takes on a different name than his/her birth name. According to Google, this is a so-called "monastic name."
In my country (I don't know how this goes in Anglo-Saxon countries), those who become nuns or monks tend to adopt a Latin(ized) name as their new name. An example: a man is born as Johannes [surname] and he adopts the name Stephanus when he becomes a monk. He supposedly also drops his surname, because from then on, he will only be known as Brother/Friar Stephanus. He doesn't use his birth name anymore, and graves of nuns and monks have proven to me that their birth names are not even written on their tombstones as well.
My question is: why does this custom exist? Why does one adopt a new name when he/she becomes a monk/nun - why will the birth name be removed for the rest of his/her life? And is this also legal? I mean, wouldn't a new nun or monk have to change her/his legal papers since she/he assumed a new identity? Or is this one of those things where church and the law are still separated?
I would appreciate it if someone shed some light on the matter, because I've been wondering about it. Thank you. :)
"How do you pick up the threads of an old life? How do you go on... when in your heart you begin to understand... there is no going back? There are some things that time cannot mend... some hurts that go too deep... that have taken hold." ~ Frodo Baggins
To my understanding, in the Roman Catholic religion it is custom that one who becomes a nun or a monk (depending on the sex) takes on a different name than his/her birth name. According to Google, this is a so-called "monastic name."
In my country (I don't know how this goes in Anglo-Saxon countries), those who become nuns or monks tend to adopt a Latin(ized) name as their new name. An example: a man is born as Johannes [surname] and he adopts the name Stephanus when he becomes a monk. He supposedly also drops his surname, because from then on, he will only be known as Brother/Friar Stephanus. He doesn't use his birth name anymore, and graves of nuns and monks have proven to me that their birth names are not even written on their tombstones as well.
My question is: why does this custom exist? Why does one adopt a new name when he/she becomes a monk/nun - why will the birth name be removed for the rest of his/her life? And is this also legal? I mean, wouldn't a new nun or monk have to change her/his legal papers since she/he assumed a new identity? Or is this one of those things where church and the law are still separated?
I would appreciate it if someone shed some light on the matter, because I've been wondering about it. Thank you. :)
"How do you pick up the threads of an old life? How do you go on... when in your heart you begin to understand... there is no going back? There are some things that time cannot mend... some hurts that go too deep... that have taken hold." ~ Frodo Baggins
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Thank you for the information, everyone! :-D
Made you look. ;)
Made you look. ;)
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why does this custom exist? Why does one adopt a new name when he/she becomes a monk/nun - why will the birth name be removed for the rest of his/her life?
The custom to take a new one for the religious life was very usual (I'm quite sure that it was mandatory, at least in some orders) until the Second Vatican Council, as Anneza pointed.
It was a sign of renonce to previous civil life and an external mark of a new identity, as other signs which has been abandoned too: the tonsure for priests and monks and to crop the hair for nuns, for example. The same kind of change of name as external sign of new identity and life appears in other fields: arts and music (Prince, e.g.), BDSM (submisive/sub or slave's name, e.g.), conversion names...
The change of name is not longer usual, but it is still in some cases, specially when the civil name is not very religious or among strict orders. I know the case of a girl named Samanta who recently toke her perpetual votes as nun in a strict order (I will ask my in-laws which one and I will clarify here later) and toke the religious name of Sor María de la Cruz (that is only her religious name, her civil name is still Samanta Paternal family name Maternal family name).
And is this also legal? I mean, wouldn't a new nun or monk have to change her/his legal papers since she/he assumed a new identity?
No, it is not legal, at least in secular Western European countries.
Or is this one of those things where church and the law are still separated?
Yes, Church and law are two different things, at least in Western European countries; religion is only a private matter. If a nun/a priest/a monk wants to legally change her/his name, it is possible but only as any other person who wants to change her/his name and she/he has to follow the legal process to make it (then, the change could be allowed or denied).
But, in any case, the legal change of name will only affect the given name(s), never the surnames.
The custom to take a new one for the religious life was very usual (I'm quite sure that it was mandatory, at least in some orders) until the Second Vatican Council, as Anneza pointed.
It was a sign of renonce to previous civil life and an external mark of a new identity, as other signs which has been abandoned too: the tonsure for priests and monks and to crop the hair for nuns, for example. The same kind of change of name as external sign of new identity and life appears in other fields: arts and music (Prince, e.g.), BDSM (submisive/sub or slave's name, e.g.), conversion names...
The change of name is not longer usual, but it is still in some cases, specially when the civil name is not very religious or among strict orders. I know the case of a girl named Samanta who recently toke her perpetual votes as nun in a strict order (I will ask my in-laws which one and I will clarify here later) and toke the religious name of Sor María de la Cruz (that is only her religious name, her civil name is still Samanta Paternal family name Maternal family name).
And is this also legal? I mean, wouldn't a new nun or monk have to change her/his legal papers since she/he assumed a new identity?
No, it is not legal, at least in secular Western European countries.
Or is this one of those things where church and the law are still separated?
Yes, Church and law are two different things, at least in Western European countries; religion is only a private matter. If a nun/a priest/a monk wants to legally change her/his name, it is possible but only as any other person who wants to change her/his name and she/he has to follow the legal process to make it (then, the change could be allowed or denied).
But, in any case, the legal change of name will only affect the given name(s), never the surnames.
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Small clarification about Indian law which might have been unclear from my previous message. Indian is also secular, though in a slightly different sense than in the European tradition. The relevant factor here is that in a society where the seat of effective government is far from the daily lives of most people, absent contrary legal principles, widespread social customs are grandfathered in to law. In other words, the government retains the right to legislate against it, and the fundamental rights like equality before law might automatically forbid certain practices, but in other matters, custom prevails.
As a different example, in India, marriages do not need to be registered, and births are often not registered. After marriage a woman does not have to formally declare her intension of using her husband's last name: she can legally continue to use her maiden (or otherwise previous) last name and start using her husband's last name or even both at the same time without a legal declaration. In some parts of India (like Maharashtra), the patriarchal structure is strong enough that at a wedding, the husband is allowed to ritually rename his wife. I suspect the law would recognize such renaming as well, though in the society I am familiar with, I have not met a husband who would dare to exercise this "right", so I do not know.
In India, it is also legal to change one's last name, or drop it altogether, by a simple affirmation in court and public notice. I suspect it would be legal to add multiple last names, though I know of no such case.
As a different example, in India, marriages do not need to be registered, and births are often not registered. After marriage a woman does not have to formally declare her intension of using her husband's last name: she can legally continue to use her maiden (or otherwise previous) last name and start using her husband's last name or even both at the same time without a legal declaration. In some parts of India (like Maharashtra), the patriarchal structure is strong enough that at a wedding, the husband is allowed to ritually rename his wife. I suspect the law would recognize such renaming as well, though in the society I am familiar with, I have not met a husband who would dare to exercise this "right", so I do not know.
In India, it is also legal to change one's last name, or drop it altogether, by a simple affirmation in court and public notice. I suspect it would be legal to add multiple last names, though I know of no such case.
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Tanmoy's explanation works for Catholics as well, as far as I know. What I don't know is whether the confirmation name which Catholics choose for themselves has any legal status: if you're Emily Susan Jones and choose Mary at confirmation, I imagine that would just be personal to you and nothing the law would bother about.
Something I find odd, which I think is disappearing, is taking a male name if you're a woman. Sister Leonardo (I've met one). Sister John Paul. But not Brother Margaret, as far as I know.
In English-speaking South Africa, and elsewhere too I would guess, women who become nuns are now free to retain their birth names if they wish, probably post-Vatican 2, so instead of selecting a saint's name or a (suitable) biblical one you could remain Sister Deirdre, Sister Jennifer or Sister Gillian. As Austrian nun I knew about 30-40 years ago had been known by her first given name 'in the world', but when she became a nun she used her middle name, Gerlinde. Not sure if it's a saint's name or not, but it would have solved the problem of changing one's legal papers. (We were students together, and she was mostly known as Sister Lixl, just as we were known to the lecturers as Mr Thorpe, Miss Davies or whoever. I called her Gerlinde because we were friends; not Sister Gerlinde though because I'm not Catholic.)
To return briefly to Sr Gill, another friend: she was a nun for 12 years, starting straight from school, and then left. Her identity document(with photograph), which South Africans have to carry, showed her in her nun's habit. This was fun when she went to buy wine for a family party and was asked for her ID ...
This is a pretty Loungeish response ... but I don't Lounge ...
All the best
Something I find odd, which I think is disappearing, is taking a male name if you're a woman. Sister Leonardo (I've met one). Sister John Paul. But not Brother Margaret, as far as I know.
In English-speaking South Africa, and elsewhere too I would guess, women who become nuns are now free to retain their birth names if they wish, probably post-Vatican 2, so instead of selecting a saint's name or a (suitable) biblical one you could remain Sister Deirdre, Sister Jennifer or Sister Gillian. As Austrian nun I knew about 30-40 years ago had been known by her first given name 'in the world', but when she became a nun she used her middle name, Gerlinde. Not sure if it's a saint's name or not, but it would have solved the problem of changing one's legal papers. (We were students together, and she was mostly known as Sister Lixl, just as we were known to the lecturers as Mr Thorpe, Miss Davies or whoever. I called her Gerlinde because we were friends; not Sister Gerlinde though because I'm not Catholic.)
To return briefly to Sr Gill, another friend: she was a nun for 12 years, starting straight from school, and then left. Her identity document(with photograph), which South Africans have to carry, showed her in her nun's habit. This was fun when she went to buy wine for a family party and was asked for her ID ...
This is a pretty Loungeish response ... but I don't Lounge ...
All the best
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Two clarifications
The use of confirmation names is a tradition among Catholic people in English speaking countries, in some German speaking countries and Poland, but it is completely unknown in most of the Catholic communities. It is not a Catholic rite, just a costum allowed by Church, like other costums in other countries/cultures: three names in the baptism, blessing of palms on Palm Sunday, blessing of animals on Saint Anthony's day, etc.
And about male names in nuns, there are two reasons.
The first one is the self humiliation. Chosing a male name, and to be called by it all the days the rest of her life, was a way to show humility and to abandon mundane trivialities and/or decorations (like hair, clothes, jewellery...) and a way to mortificate oneself (like to be barefoot, to use some devices as the cilicium...). It was just the same reason for some humility names among first Christians (Mucius, e.g.) or for some odd names among Puritans.
The second one is the devotion to a saint or to a prominent Catholic character, basically the Pople. That is why it was possible to find nuns named Sor María de San Andrés or Sor José and Sor Andrés and nuns named Sister John Paul.
The use of feminine names among monks is resticted, to my best knowledge, to related with Our Lady names or to Catholic misteries and faith matters, just like among the general population: Guadalupe, Rosario, Trinidad...
The use of confirmation names is a tradition among Catholic people in English speaking countries, in some German speaking countries and Poland, but it is completely unknown in most of the Catholic communities. It is not a Catholic rite, just a costum allowed by Church, like other costums in other countries/cultures: three names in the baptism, blessing of palms on Palm Sunday, blessing of animals on Saint Anthony's day, etc.
And about male names in nuns, there are two reasons.
The first one is the self humiliation. Chosing a male name, and to be called by it all the days the rest of her life, was a way to show humility and to abandon mundane trivialities and/or decorations (like hair, clothes, jewellery...) and a way to mortificate oneself (like to be barefoot, to use some devices as the cilicium...). It was just the same reason for some humility names among first Christians (Mucius, e.g.) or for some odd names among Puritans.
The second one is the devotion to a saint or to a prominent Catholic character, basically the Pople. That is why it was possible to find nuns named Sor María de San Andrés or Sor José and Sor Andrés and nuns named Sister John Paul.
The use of feminine names among monks is resticted, to my best knowledge, to related with Our Lady names or to Catholic misteries and faith matters, just like among the general population: Guadalupe, Rosario, Trinidad...
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That's interesting, Lumia - thanks! As I say, I'm not a Catholic so what little I know, I get from friends.
Can't help wondering, though, if a male name is humiliating for a woman, why would a female name not be humiliating for a man? Very strange ...
All the best
Can't help wondering, though, if a male name is humiliating for a woman, why would a female name not be humiliating for a man? Very strange ...
All the best
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Your point is very interesting and very true, why the concept of humiliation is different for men and for women.
I suspect (and that is only a personal oppinion) that is consequence of the male chauvinism of most European cultures (the bottom line in religion is "there is not worthy woman, but Virgin Mary" and it is still alive in the ban against women at Mount Athos) and the inconscient attempt to avoid to be confused with a homosexual or effeminate person; the femenine homosexuality was simply unconceivable or ignorated by Europeans throughout centuries and, for instance, it was not prosecuted in Victorian England because Queen Victoria refused to believe that "something as abnormal" as two female lovers was possible.
Maybe there were monks with femenine names (and not related with Our Lady), but I'm unaware of that.
I suspect (and that is only a personal oppinion) that is consequence of the male chauvinism of most European cultures (the bottom line in religion is "there is not worthy woman, but Virgin Mary" and it is still alive in the ban against women at Mount Athos) and the inconscient attempt to avoid to be confused with a homosexual or effeminate person; the femenine homosexuality was simply unconceivable or ignorated by Europeans throughout centuries and, for instance, it was not prosecuted in Victorian England because Queen Victoria refused to believe that "something as abnormal" as two female lovers was possible.
Maybe there were monks with femenine names (and not related with Our Lady), but I'm unaware of that.
1
In the spirit of a lounge conversation, I would like to point out that other religions do this too: I know of at least Hindu and Buddhist examples. In the Buddhist case, the reason is that one is giving up one's lay existence with all the attendant duties as a member of a family and recognition in society and becoming subservient to the monastic entity and forming a part of that. The reasons are different but similar in Hinduism: the teacher that takes the new name is no longer the person with the ego that was known by the old name, he or she is a new person endowed with a quality of rightness in their thought and teachings which transcends the individuality of the person with their birth name.
Law in India recognizes the change in name, but since the religious purpose of the change is to renounce the individuality of the former existence, the law applies to the extent that secular society does not grant the religious freedom of complete renunciation of the past.
Law in India recognizes the change in name, but since the religious purpose of the change is to renounce the individuality of the former existence, the law applies to the extent that secular society does not grant the religious freedom of complete renunciation of the past.
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