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ArchivesRe: Vanecia
in reply to a message by Roxane
Okay, first off, "The Great Australian & New Zealand Book of Baby Names" kind of made me giggle. Does the 'great' refer to the Greater Australian area or to the quality of the book? I would be interested in your appraisal of its local usefulness.
Anyway, Venetia is an area that was settled by the Veneti tribes circa 1000 B.C., roughly equaling the modern Veneto region. Venezia is the Italian name of the city we call Venice, the natural center and well protected capitol of its city state. All of this is readily available information.
Now, this Gwyneth-Venetia connection is news to me, as I generally don't study Welsh at all. But I can speak with regards to Irish-Gaelic. In that language, when words need to be Latinized they use a process of "equivications" (such as Anluan-Alphonsus, Seachnall-Secundus, Caoimhín-Pulcherius, Fiacha-Festus) in equal proportion to the creation of new Latin names.
This is just presumption, but the Gwyneth-Venetia translation smacks of "equivication" to Latin, and by someone who understood a thing or two. In Welsh 'Gw' morphs into 'W' in some tenses. Of course, Latin does not use the letter 'w,' but usually translates foreign names with a 'w' into a 'gu' or 'v.' One might surmise the 'gu' translation is more apt but when one finds a perfectly matching name in all other regards, our "Venetia," it makes sense to used the established name. Further, the 'y' becomes 'e' and the 'th' becomes 't' as is appropriate for Latin, and the '-ia' suffix cements a feminine usage.
I would yet assume that "Venetia" was never a very common given name, and that this reappropriation was without serious repercussion.
If I was to guess at a source of translation it would either be the Norman-French influence on Britain leaving a Latin translation for the Gwynedd region of Wales or the Catholic church Latinizing the name of a saint.
Anyway, Venetia is an area that was settled by the Veneti tribes circa 1000 B.C., roughly equaling the modern Veneto region. Venezia is the Italian name of the city we call Venice, the natural center and well protected capitol of its city state. All of this is readily available information.
Now, this Gwyneth-Venetia connection is news to me, as I generally don't study Welsh at all. But I can speak with regards to Irish-Gaelic. In that language, when words need to be Latinized they use a process of "equivications" (such as Anluan-Alphonsus, Seachnall-Secundus, Caoimhín-Pulcherius, Fiacha-Festus) in equal proportion to the creation of new Latin names.
This is just presumption, but the Gwyneth-Venetia translation smacks of "equivication" to Latin, and by someone who understood a thing or two. In Welsh 'Gw' morphs into 'W' in some tenses. Of course, Latin does not use the letter 'w,' but usually translates foreign names with a 'w' into a 'gu' or 'v.' One might surmise the 'gu' translation is more apt but when one finds a perfectly matching name in all other regards, our "Venetia," it makes sense to used the established name. Further, the 'y' becomes 'e' and the 'th' becomes 't' as is appropriate for Latin, and the '-ia' suffix cements a feminine usage.
I would yet assume that "Venetia" was never a very common given name, and that this reappropriation was without serious repercussion.
If I was to guess at a source of translation it would either be the Norman-French influence on Britain leaving a Latin translation for the Gwynedd region of Wales or the Catholic church Latinizing the name of a saint.
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Replies
...I find this book very useful and seems to give a clearer
meaning than someone telling everyone that a name is either
a female or male form or that it comes from a city to me this
is an easy way out of not researching something and the meanings
of names I am sure that the author has researched.
Yes, granted the name of the book is a bit lame but the author is
an expert in her field and was at the time of the publishing of this
book the Australian representative of the worldwide Names Society.
I think that I would trust her interpretation more than yours
knowing a language doesn't automatically make you an expert.
Also, the name is "Vanecia" not Venetia as you and others keep
trying to say that it is, as per my first message, after doing a
Google.com search I found that this name has been used in America
for at least 90 years. So I thought there maybe someone out there
who knew an origin other than passing it off as from Venice and
the true meaning, not speculate because it sounds like Venice.
Because I know for a fact that my Grandmother wasn't thinking of
Venice when my Mother was born.
Roxane
meaning than someone telling everyone that a name is either
a female or male form or that it comes from a city to me this
is an easy way out of not researching something and the meanings
of names I am sure that the author has researched.
Yes, granted the name of the book is a bit lame but the author is
an expert in her field and was at the time of the publishing of this
book the Australian representative of the worldwide Names Society.
I think that I would trust her interpretation more than yours
knowing a language doesn't automatically make you an expert.
Also, the name is "Vanecia" not Venetia as you and others keep
trying to say that it is, as per my first message, after doing a
Google.com search I found that this name has been used in America
for at least 90 years. So I thought there maybe someone out there
who knew an origin other than passing it off as from Venice and
the true meaning, not speculate because it sounds like Venice.
Because I know for a fact that my Grandmother wasn't thinking of
Venice when my Mother was born.
Roxane
1