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What is pagan about the sun?
I mean, God made it himself, as far as I know, so what should be wrong about being happy to see it return?
I just come to think of a passage in Luke where the sun is mentioned in a very beautiful way:
76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest:
for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,
79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.
(Luke 1, 76-79)
I mean, God made it himself, as far as I know, so what should be wrong about being happy to see it return?
I just come to think of a passage in Luke where the sun is mentioned in a very beautiful way:
76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest:
for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,
79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.
(Luke 1, 76-79)
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Beyond the symbolism Nan mentioned, the sun *is* the ultimate source of our lives. Without it we would be freeze-dried cosmic dust :)
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There's nothing really pagan about the sun, but some of us are so-called "pagans". You, I am gathering you are a Christian , believe the sun was created by "God" and him alone. Others believe that there is something differently extrodinary about it, and in "ancient" times they celebrated it by the different holidays, &c.
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Hmm... I wonder
I guess I am what you call a christian. Well, I believe in christ anyway so that does it I guess :)
But if there should be something unchristian about being happy about the return of the sun it would have to imply that you thought that the sun was a creature or a god or something, which should be worshipped instead of God. Like the gold statue when moses went to get the 10 commandments, I mean.
I wonder if there are people today who will claim that the sun is a god, which must be worshipped.
But then again humanity is so diverse so perhaps somewhere there are people who believe the sun is a god. It has been believed earlier on like in Egypt so why not.
I guess I am what you call a christian. Well, I believe in christ anyway so that does it I guess :)
But if there should be something unchristian about being happy about the return of the sun it would have to imply that you thought that the sun was a creature or a god or something, which should be worshipped instead of God. Like the gold statue when moses went to get the 10 commandments, I mean.
I wonder if there are people today who will claim that the sun is a god, which must be worshipped.
But then again humanity is so diverse so perhaps somewhere there are people who believe the sun is a god. It has been believed earlier on like in Egypt so why not.
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Wonder no more!
You appear to be a little confused, Selwyn... :)
"I mean, God made it himself, as far as I know, so what should be wrong about being happy to see it return?"
@@@@ PriaposLovs wasn't implying that there is anything wrong in celebrating the Spring Equinox. You need to understand that the words "pagan" and "bad" are *not* synonymous -- regardless of what some grown-ups may have been telling you. :)
"But if there should be something unchristian about being happy about the return of the sun it would have to imply that you thought that the sun was a creature or a god or something..."
@@@@ No, that's just silly. :) There are a LOT of "unchristians" who do *not* worship the sun as though it was a "creature or a god". Jewish people are just as happy to see the coming of springtime as Christians are, and they are about as unchristian as ya can get! ;) Nothing wrong with that. In addition, to many pagans the sun is welcomed as a *symbol* of the earth's returning time of fertility. And, as for those pagans who *do* happen to revere the sun as a deity -- so what? Nothing wrong with that, either. Unless you happen to be a Christian . Celebrating pagan ways and days may be wrong for *Christians* (although it doesn't bother my Christian husband in the least), but it is *not* wrong for other folks who don't happen to BE Christians.
Got it? ;)
-- Nanaea
You appear to be a little confused, Selwyn... :)
"I mean, God made it himself, as far as I know, so what should be wrong about being happy to see it return?"
@@@@ PriaposLovs wasn't implying that there is anything wrong in celebrating the Spring Equinox. You need to understand that the words "pagan" and "bad" are *not* synonymous -- regardless of what some grown-ups may have been telling you. :)
"But if there should be something unchristian about being happy about the return of the sun it would have to imply that you thought that the sun was a creature or a god or something..."
@@@@ No, that's just silly. :) There are a LOT of "unchristians" who do *not* worship the sun as though it was a "creature or a god". Jewish people are just as happy to see the coming of springtime as Christians are, and they are about as unchristian as ya can get! ;) Nothing wrong with that. In addition, to many pagans the sun is welcomed as a *symbol* of the earth's returning time of fertility. And, as for those pagans who *do* happen to revere the sun as a deity -- so what? Nothing wrong with that, either. Unless you happen to be a Christian . Celebrating pagan ways and days may be wrong for *Christians* (although it doesn't bother my Christian husband in the least), but it is *not* wrong for other folks who don't happen to BE Christians.
Got it? ;)
-- Nanaea
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Nanaea and Selwyn
I was thinking about the poor Finns and others who live that far north (or equally that far south). Imagine the joy they must feel when the sun peeks just over the horizon for the first time in months. Also, those who suffer from SADD (seasonal affected depression) would be extra delighted in seeing the longer "days".
Just some food for thought.
Phyllis
I was thinking about the poor Finns and others who live that far north (or equally that far south). Imagine the joy they must feel when the sun peeks just over the horizon for the first time in months. Also, those who suffer from SADD (seasonal affected depression) would be extra delighted in seeing the longer "days".
Just some food for thought.
Phyllis
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Don't you mean Spring Equinox?
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I stand corrected Mike. I attempted to transliterate the expression from Greek :P
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Now I'm curious... Do the Greeks use the same word to denote both the solstice and equinox?
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Greeks who translate faster than they think do :P
Actually Solstice is "Heliostasio", from "Helios" ("sun") and "stasis" (static balance between opposing forces) and Equinox is "Isemeria", from "Iso" ("equal") and "Hemera" ("day").
Actually Solstice is "Heliostasio", from "Helios" ("sun") and "stasis" (static balance between opposing forces) and Equinox is "Isemeria", from "Iso" ("equal") and "Hemera" ("day").
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Interesting that the Latin terms used in English are almost exact translations of the Greek. I imagine the Romans were influenced by the Greeks in their construction of the words.
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Guys
Actually, if I recall something mentioned in my Wicca and Neopaganism class correctly, pagan is derived from Latin paganus which meant "from the country", almost like some English speakers use the words "hick" or "bumpkin". It's also like the Greek word that later became the English word "barbarian". I don't quite remember the exact word used during the height of Greek city-states, but I think PriaposLovs might be able to follow my train of thought.
No language is free of "borrowed" words and/or phrases. Whenever two cultures meet (or clash) some verbal exchanges are made (i.e., kangaroo from the Aborigines in Australia, ocelot from Nahuatl, Easter from Old High German, et cetera from Latin, etc.) Many place names in the United States will be an interesting language lesson in various American Indian languages.
Sorry about this rant here, but I'm in the midst of a college paper on the Repatriation Act and how it affects both American Indians and the honest museums or collectors.
Phyllis
Actually, if I recall something mentioned in my Wicca and Neopaganism class correctly, pagan is derived from Latin paganus which meant "from the country", almost like some English speakers use the words "hick" or "bumpkin". It's also like the Greek word that later became the English word "barbarian". I don't quite remember the exact word used during the height of Greek city-states, but I think PriaposLovs might be able to follow my train of thought.
No language is free of "borrowed" words and/or phrases. Whenever two cultures meet (or clash) some verbal exchanges are made (i.e., kangaroo from the Aborigines in Australia, ocelot from Nahuatl, Easter from Old High German, et cetera from Latin, etc.) Many place names in the United States will be an interesting language lesson in various American Indian languages.
Sorry about this rant here, but I'm in the midst of a college paper on the Repatriation Act and how it affects both American Indians and the honest museums or collectors.
Phyllis
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Some of these foreign names supposedly came from linguistic misunderstandings.
"Llama", for example. It's said an early Spaniard pointed to a llama and asked a Quechua Indian, "what's that called?" In Spanish, "called" would be "llamas", and that's the word the Indian repeated back. The Spaniard (not too bright, apparently) assumed it to be the animal's name.
Similarly with "kangaroo". This may have been an Aboriginal word for "I don't understand you", in reply to a similar question.
"Llama", for example. It's said an early Spaniard pointed to a llama and asked a Quechua Indian, "what's that called?" In Spanish, "called" would be "llamas", and that's the word the Indian repeated back. The Spaniard (not too bright, apparently) assumed it to be the animal's name.
Similarly with "kangaroo". This may have been an Aboriginal word for "I don't understand you", in reply to a similar question.
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The Nootka, a native tribe of western Canada, were named by Captain Cook who thought they were introducing themselves when in fact they were telling him to go away.
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Here's a funny side-note: In my Greek class our prof told us that the Greek word *barbaros* is onomatopoeic. That is, it was given in imitation of the language of the savages, which sounded like "bar bar bar bar" to the Greeks.
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Yep thats true! "Barbaros" is a linguistic and not a racist slur meaning "a non-speaker of Greek".
Regarding the previous point, there are several cases of parallel developments in different languages. For example, the word "lens" evolved from the latin "lentil" (both are presently called lentil in French) just as the Greek word for lens ("fakos") developed from the Greek word for lentil ("faki"). Another case is the analogy of "supposition" and "suppository" which also holds in Greek: "Hypothesis" and "Hypotheton" :P
Regarding the previous point, there are several cases of parallel developments in different languages. For example, the word "lens" evolved from the latin "lentil" (both are presently called lentil in French) just as the Greek word for lens ("fakos") developed from the Greek word for lentil ("faki"). Another case is the analogy of "supposition" and "suppository" which also holds in Greek: "Hypothesis" and "Hypotheton" :P
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