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ArchivesRe: When was Raewyn created?
in reply to a message by Cleveland Kent Evans
What fascinates me is the use of -wyn instead of -wen for a female, way back in 1927! Assuming, that is, that whoever used it first was basing it loosely on Bronwen and similar Welsh names. Even if it was based on, say, Winifred, that y looks very modern. Perhaps we have been underestimating the Antipodes ...
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Win(e), Wen and Wyn are all Saxon name elements with different (vaguely related) Germanic origins, not just Welsh elements (in fact there are a number of purely Saxon names (both male and female) quite similar to Bronwen/Bronwynn, including a Branwine which predates the "Welsh" Branwen). Of the three only Win is originally masculine, although the feminine -wyn (in which the y represents the i-umlaut variant of u as in German Über) is leveled in some dialects to either -win or -wen. When researching names bear in mind that given names are quite often taken from a language other than that spoken by the user, even in antiquity (this is a global phenomenon). Many Greek names come from ancient Anatolian languages, and conversely many Anatolian people had Greek names well before the area was Hellenized; many old "Welsh" names have a Latin or Germanic origin, and some ancient Germanic names are actually Celtic or even (broadly speaking) Persian. In this case the name was supposedly formed by merging the female first name Rae with the Welsh surname Wynn (from Gwyn) in honor of a person with that name (which is why it was given to girls, not boys). The only problem with this theory, is that there appears to be no record that this supposedly famous person ever existed.
This message was edited 12/19/2018, 10:18 PM
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that's probably because, apart from on these boards, not many people are actually that aware that in the Welsh language -wyn is a male ending. And those that do know, probably don't care. Even in Wales itself, you'll find the odd female Bronwyn, and probably no one ever bats an eyelid (My cousin's Welsh boyfriend, who moved to England four years ago, claims to have had no idea that Bronwyn is technically 'incorrect').
Besides that, if the name is Maori in origin, then there's no reason why anyone SHOULD use -wen rather than -wyn, whether it's for a male or a female.
Besides that, if the name is Maori in origin, then there's no reason why anyone SHOULD use -wen rather than -wyn, whether it's for a male or a female.
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It's highly unlikely that it's Maori in origin, it doesn't resemble any other Maori name formation I've ever seen. Far more probable is that it's a post-colonial New Zealander coinage.
But I agree that, apart from within Wales itself, there doesn't seem to have ever been any widespread knowledge about -wyn being masculine.
But I agree that, apart from within Wales itself, there doesn't seem to have ever been any widespread knowledge about -wyn being masculine.
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Agree with the above - in that the name isn't Maori. The oldest reference I have found is from the 20's - where Raewyn had a Welsh father and Maori mother. (I thought originally she had come from Wales, but was wrong).
When did Raewyn become (was it ever) used for females in Wales? If it was before the 20th century - it may have been a direct migration of name - if not - agree that it's likely an adaptation.
When did Raewyn become (was it ever) used for females in Wales? If it was before the 20th century - it may have been a direct migration of name - if not - agree that it's likely an adaptation.
This message was edited 2/15/2008, 5:05 AM
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Hi
My name is Raewyn and I did some research on this back in the mid 1990s - I was able to get in touch with an Americna lady who named her baby daughter at the time Raewyn and she had done quite a lot of research
Raewyn is not welsh despite what people think. It is a name derived in New Zealand.
In the late 1890s the suffrage movement in NZ was in full swing - NZ was the first country in the world to give women the vote (in 1893 I believe). Anyway apparently there was a prominent woman in the suffrage movement named Rae Wynn (first name and last name). In her honour people started naming their babies "Raewyn, Raewynn, Raewynne" etc. The name spread across the tasman to Australia.
It is MUCH more common in NZ than in Australia. In Australia whenever I have met someone who is familiar with the name they always have a NZ connection.
I hope this helps! I'd love to see more accurate information out there about the name.
I've tried searching for info about the original Rae Wynn but haven't found anything.
My name is Raewyn and I did some research on this back in the mid 1990s - I was able to get in touch with an Americna lady who named her baby daughter at the time Raewyn and she had done quite a lot of research
Raewyn is not welsh despite what people think. It is a name derived in New Zealand.
In the late 1890s the suffrage movement in NZ was in full swing - NZ was the first country in the world to give women the vote (in 1893 I believe). Anyway apparently there was a prominent woman in the suffrage movement named Rae Wynn (first name and last name). In her honour people started naming their babies "Raewyn, Raewynn, Raewynne" etc. The name spread across the tasman to Australia.
It is MUCH more common in NZ than in Australia. In Australia whenever I have met someone who is familiar with the name they always have a NZ connection.
I hope this helps! I'd love to see more accurate information out there about the name.
I've tried searching for info about the original Rae Wynn but haven't found anything.
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This doesn't explain the origin of the name Raewyn, or the story it is related to the suffrage movement. Prior to 1919 there don't appear to be any Raewyns born with the name. There is a woman born 1927 who went by Raewyn when she died in 1967 (I believe she was murdered and these details were in the newspapers), there are numerous other Raewyns mentioned in various records (not official BDM records which were still closed to public searches) in the 1960s, but we don't know how old they are. Elizabeth Ray Wynn doesn't seem to have been much of a public figure. and although she married Wynn in 1924, it doesn't seem she was widely known as Ray Wynn when ahe's mentioned in relation to the women's movement in the 1930s (concerned with subsidies and proper training for domestic help - how times change). Family members later seem to refer to her as Ray Wynn, but by then Raewyn seems to have been already in use.
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Thank you! It’s so great to know this. Having been to the UK and finding out my name wasn’t Welsh, I guessed it must have been created in New Zealand as there are so many of us here, but now I know why. Very proud to know I was named after one of the suffragettes
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Unfortunately, so far as I can determine, no such person existed. There are three Mrs Wynns who signed the main petition, none of them named Rae. No Rae Wynn is mentioned as a member of the suffrage movement or National Council for Women, and neither birth, marriage or death records exist for anyone named Rae Wynn. Although the name first appears in the '20s it doesn't become common until a generation later, among the daughters of people born in the mid-1920s, and more than 50 years after the suffrage movement brought women the vote in New Zealand.
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IS this the same person? Emily Gibson was the mother of Elizabeth Ray Wynn (nee Gibson), born 1895, who later went by Ray Wynn. If the first instances of Raewyn occur c1920, then she would be too young for anyone to base the name on her (she was married in 1924, and the biographical reference is from 1930). Unfortunately, there is also no-one else recorded in births, deaths or marriages with surname Wynn or Wyn, and a first name that is any variant of Rae or Ray. Records are only searchable for births prior to 1919, so there's no searchable record of the Raewyn born c1927 deceased 1967. The National Library of New Zealand has several references from the '50s of people named Raewyn, but it appears all of these were born after 1919, so there are nor searchable birth records.
This message was edited 12/19/2018, 9:00 PM
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