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ArchivesWhen was Raewyn created?
A posting on another board has gotten me curious about Raewyn. This is a female name which has been regularly used in Australia and New Zealand for many years. It is probably just a created name blending Rae and Wynn.
But just how old is it? Doing about half an hour of Googling on geneology sites and the like, the oldest Raewyn I was able to come up with was born in 1927. Do any posters on this board from Australia or New Zealand know of any Raewyns who would have been born before that date? And does anyone know if there is a literary origin? Was there a particular character in a novel or play named Raewyn that could account for the use of the name? Or is it an example of a name that somehow caught on without there being such a specific cultural reference?
But just how old is it? Doing about half an hour of Googling on geneology sites and the like, the oldest Raewyn I was able to come up with was born in 1927. Do any posters on this board from Australia or New Zealand know of any Raewyns who would have been born before that date? And does anyone know if there is a literary origin? Was there a particular character in a novel or play named Raewyn that could account for the use of the name? Or is it an example of a name that somehow caught on without there being such a specific cultural reference?
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Replies
Hi, my name is Raewyn, born in Australia but NZ parent. I've researched a bit but always seem to end up with the popular answer that raewyn is the blend of Rae and Wynn and welsh origin. However, raewyn is essentially a name used only in New Zealand. Even Raewyn's like me living elsewhere have NZ roots.
So I was asking my Mum again, and she said as a girl raewyn was actually a name used by the Maori families. So I searched a different path and found that there is a Maori name Reiwana where the English version is raewyn.
Ngā kōrero o tētahi aituā tauhou i pā ki tētahi kōtiro tino rangatira, i roto i tēnei iwi, i a Ngāti Tūwharetoa, arā ki a Reiwana Kīngi Te Herekiekie (TJ 20/6/1899:14). / The account of a strange misfortune to befall a high born girl from Ngāti Tūwharetoa, that is, Raewyn Kīngi Te Herekiekie.
I think this is more likely the answer to the names origin.
So I was asking my Mum again, and she said as a girl raewyn was actually a name used by the Maori families. So I searched a different path and found that there is a Maori name Reiwana where the English version is raewyn.
Ngā kōrero o tētahi aituā tauhou i pā ki tētahi kōtiro tino rangatira, i roto i tēnei iwi, i a Ngāti Tūwharetoa, arā ki a Reiwana Kīngi Te Herekiekie (TJ 20/6/1899:14). / The account of a strange misfortune to befall a high born girl from Ngāti Tūwharetoa, that is, Raewyn Kīngi Te Herekiekie.
I think this is more likely the answer to the names origin.
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plausible, but we can't be certain an unrelated name Raewyn wasn't chosen as a much later match for Reiwana, or if that is an accurate spelling of the Maori name. Reiwana is from 1876, the first Raewyn, 1927
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What fascinates me is the use of -wyn instead of -wen for a female, way back in 1927! Assuming, that is, that whoever used it first was basing it loosely on Bronwen and similar Welsh names. Even if it was based on, say, Winifred, that y looks very modern. Perhaps we have been underestimating the Antipodes ...
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Win(e), Wen and Wyn are all Saxon name elements with different (vaguely related) Germanic origins, not just Welsh elements (in fact there are a number of purely Saxon names (both male and female) quite similar to Bronwen/Bronwynn, including a Branwine which predates the "Welsh" Branwen). Of the three only Win is originally masculine, although the feminine -wyn (in which the y represents the i-umlaut variant of u as in German Über) is leveled in some dialects to either -win or -wen. When researching names bear in mind that given names are quite often taken from a language other than that spoken by the user, even in antiquity (this is a global phenomenon). Many Greek names come from ancient Anatolian languages, and conversely many Anatolian people had Greek names well before the area was Hellenized; many old "Welsh" names have a Latin or Germanic origin, and some ancient Germanic names are actually Celtic or even (broadly speaking) Persian. In this case the name was supposedly formed by merging the female first name Rae with the Welsh surname Wynn (from Gwyn) in honor of a person with that name (which is why it was given to girls, not boys). The only problem with this theory, is that there appears to be no record that this supposedly famous person ever existed.
This message was edited 12/19/2018, 10:18 PM
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that's probably because, apart from on these boards, not many people are actually that aware that in the Welsh language -wyn is a male ending. And those that do know, probably don't care. Even in Wales itself, you'll find the odd female Bronwyn, and probably no one ever bats an eyelid (My cousin's Welsh boyfriend, who moved to England four years ago, claims to have had no idea that Bronwyn is technically 'incorrect').
Besides that, if the name is Maori in origin, then there's no reason why anyone SHOULD use -wen rather than -wyn, whether it's for a male or a female.
Besides that, if the name is Maori in origin, then there's no reason why anyone SHOULD use -wen rather than -wyn, whether it's for a male or a female.
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It's highly unlikely that it's Maori in origin, it doesn't resemble any other Maori name formation I've ever seen. Far more probable is that it's a post-colonial New Zealander coinage.
But I agree that, apart from within Wales itself, there doesn't seem to have ever been any widespread knowledge about -wyn being masculine.
But I agree that, apart from within Wales itself, there doesn't seem to have ever been any widespread knowledge about -wyn being masculine.
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Agree with the above - in that the name isn't Maori. The oldest reference I have found is from the 20's - where Raewyn had a Welsh father and Maori mother. (I thought originally she had come from Wales, but was wrong).
When did Raewyn become (was it ever) used for females in Wales? If it was before the 20th century - it may have been a direct migration of name - if not - agree that it's likely an adaptation.
When did Raewyn become (was it ever) used for females in Wales? If it was before the 20th century - it may have been a direct migration of name - if not - agree that it's likely an adaptation.
This message was edited 2/15/2008, 5:05 AM
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Hi
My name is Raewyn and I did some research on this back in the mid 1990s - I was able to get in touch with an Americna lady who named her baby daughter at the time Raewyn and she had done quite a lot of research
Raewyn is not welsh despite what people think. It is a name derived in New Zealand.
In the late 1890s the suffrage movement in NZ was in full swing - NZ was the first country in the world to give women the vote (in 1893 I believe). Anyway apparently there was a prominent woman in the suffrage movement named Rae Wynn (first name and last name). In her honour people started naming their babies "Raewyn, Raewynn, Raewynne" etc. The name spread across the tasman to Australia.
It is MUCH more common in NZ than in Australia. In Australia whenever I have met someone who is familiar with the name they always have a NZ connection.
I hope this helps! I'd love to see more accurate information out there about the name.
I've tried searching for info about the original Rae Wynn but haven't found anything.
My name is Raewyn and I did some research on this back in the mid 1990s - I was able to get in touch with an Americna lady who named her baby daughter at the time Raewyn and she had done quite a lot of research
Raewyn is not welsh despite what people think. It is a name derived in New Zealand.
In the late 1890s the suffrage movement in NZ was in full swing - NZ was the first country in the world to give women the vote (in 1893 I believe). Anyway apparently there was a prominent woman in the suffrage movement named Rae Wynn (first name and last name). In her honour people started naming their babies "Raewyn, Raewynn, Raewynne" etc. The name spread across the tasman to Australia.
It is MUCH more common in NZ than in Australia. In Australia whenever I have met someone who is familiar with the name they always have a NZ connection.
I hope this helps! I'd love to see more accurate information out there about the name.
I've tried searching for info about the original Rae Wynn but haven't found anything.
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This doesn't explain the origin of the name Raewyn, or the story it is related to the suffrage movement. Prior to 1919 there don't appear to be any Raewyns born with the name. There is a woman born 1927 who went by Raewyn when she died in 1967 (I believe she was murdered and these details were in the newspapers), there are numerous other Raewyns mentioned in various records (not official BDM records which were still closed to public searches) in the 1960s, but we don't know how old they are. Elizabeth Ray Wynn doesn't seem to have been much of a public figure. and although she married Wynn in 1924, it doesn't seem she was widely known as Ray Wynn when ahe's mentioned in relation to the women's movement in the 1930s (concerned with subsidies and proper training for domestic help - how times change). Family members later seem to refer to her as Ray Wynn, but by then Raewyn seems to have been already in use.
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Thank you! It’s so great to know this. Having been to the UK and finding out my name wasn’t Welsh, I guessed it must have been created in New Zealand as there are so many of us here, but now I know why. Very proud to know I was named after one of the suffragettes
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Unfortunately, so far as I can determine, no such person existed. There are three Mrs Wynns who signed the main petition, none of them named Rae. No Rae Wynn is mentioned as a member of the suffrage movement or National Council for Women, and neither birth, marriage or death records exist for anyone named Rae Wynn. Although the name first appears in the '20s it doesn't become common until a generation later, among the daughters of people born in the mid-1920s, and more than 50 years after the suffrage movement brought women the vote in New Zealand.
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IS this the same person? Emily Gibson was the mother of Elizabeth Ray Wynn (nee Gibson), born 1895, who later went by Ray Wynn. If the first instances of Raewyn occur c1920, then she would be too young for anyone to base the name on her (she was married in 1924, and the biographical reference is from 1930). Unfortunately, there is also no-one else recorded in births, deaths or marriages with surname Wynn or Wyn, and a first name that is any variant of Rae or Ray. Records are only searchable for births prior to 1919, so there's no searchable record of the Raewyn born c1927 deceased 1967. The National Library of New Zealand has several references from the '50s of people named Raewyn, but it appears all of these were born after 1919, so there are nor searchable birth records.
This message was edited 12/19/2018, 9:00 PM
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There's certainly no major cultural figure that is the origin of the name. I've been vaguely aware of the name before, but if I thought anything of it I would have assumed that it was a creative attempt borrowed from the US. I had no idea it was specific to this part of the world!
The New South Wales Births, Deaths and Marriages search engine allows you to search recorded events from 1788 until 1907 (Births), 1977 (Deaths) and 1957 (Marriages). There are no Raewyns recorded in any of these. I'm stumped :-)
The New South Wales Births, Deaths and Marriages search engine allows you to search recorded events from 1788 until 1907 (Births), 1977 (Deaths) and 1957 (Marriages). There are no Raewyns recorded in any of these. I'm stumped :-)
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Thanks for looking ...(more)
Checking some of the references in Google again it's obvious Raewyn is primarily a New Zealand name. Many of the Australian references turn out not to have been born in Australia. For example, the Australian children's author Raewyn Caisley was born in New Zealand, and the fertility specialist Dr. Raewyn Tierney lives in Sydney but received her undergraduate degree from Auckland University. The prominent Australian sociologist Dr. Raewyn Connell is a transgender person who was born Robert William Connell, and so chose Raewyn on her own as an adult. So I guess the American references to Raewyn as an "Australian" name are the result of people not paying enough attention to the difference between Australia and New Zealand. :)
Checking some of the references in Google again it's obvious Raewyn is primarily a New Zealand name. Many of the Australian references turn out not to have been born in Australia. For example, the Australian children's author Raewyn Caisley was born in New Zealand, and the fertility specialist Dr. Raewyn Tierney lives in Sydney but received her undergraduate degree from Auckland University. The prominent Australian sociologist Dr. Raewyn Connell is a transgender person who was born Robert William Connell, and so chose Raewyn on her own as an adult. So I guess the American references to Raewyn as an "Australian" name are the result of people not paying enough attention to the difference between Australia and New Zealand. :)
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Hehe
Yeah, there seem to be quite a few people out there who don't recognise that New Zealand is distinct from Australia. There's also several baby names books and websites guilty of lumping any name they can't find an origin for under the heading 'Australian'. A kind of 'there's no origin written down so it must come from Terra Incognita, aka Australia' mentality lol. Bizarre!
Yeah, there seem to be quite a few people out there who don't recognise that New Zealand is distinct from Australia. There's also several baby names books and websites guilty of lumping any name they can't find an origin for under the heading 'Australian'. A kind of 'there's no origin written down so it must come from Terra Incognita, aka Australia' mentality lol. Bizarre!
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It's a relatively common name in New Zealand - and I think may have been originally of Welsh origin? Google shows at least one woman who came to New Zealand in the early 1900's with this name.
(edited correction - sorry - got it wrong - Raewyn' mother was Maori. Will keep hunting :)
(edited correction - sorry - got it wrong - Raewyn' mother was Maori. Will keep hunting :)
This message was edited 2/14/2008, 8:51 PM
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