New Post
Search
Help
ArchivesRe: For anyone who speaks Hebrew...
in reply to a message by Andy ;—)
> Jared (if this is your real name)
Yes, after all these years I finally am posting online with my real name...
"for once... let me look on you with my own eyes"
--Anakin Skywalker, SW6
> would any father call his son "prince"?
I suppose any father could call his son "Prince" out of parental affection.
> There is only one Jezebel in the Bible, and she is wicked
> and mean, definitely no-one to identify with. So why should
> her name be given either by Jews or Christians?
Over the centuries people began naming their baby girls Jezebel/Isabel (and all its variations) without likely realizing just what it was that they were calling their kids by. Perhaps Isabella can sound romantic to people..
> Do you have any information about the further Jewish use
> of Jezebel/Izevel?
The Jewish Christian Apostle Yọħā́nā́n(John) spoke by divine inspiration of another 'Jezebel' @Revelation 2:18-23 in the Christian-Greek Scriptures(New Testament); while such was not her real name, this "woman" had declared herself a 'prophetess' in the midst of the Christian congregation (of the 1st century-era) yet her wicked and immoral behaviour was parallel unto infamous Queen Jezebel --which is the reason that such a dungy epithet was used to distinguish her.
> What books or other sources do you use?
Well, that's going somewhat off-topic, given that it's not a name-related question.. I'll post a reply to it over in 'The Lounge' board under "conversation continued from Name Facts Board id=49485"
Anyjow, I have conducted some further research and I must somewhat revise my earlier examination of this mid-eastern name, Isabel.
The Bä’äl venerated by the Philistines at their ancient city of Eqrọn was Zəvüv, that is to say in English, Baal-zebub/Beelzebub; this name is interchangeable with Beel-Zeboul(Zebül?). Now, it would seemed to have been a customary habit in ancient Yisraël to alter the names attributed to pagan deities worshiped by the surrounding peoples, substituting words which exhibited a resemblance in pronunciation though dishonorable in context. Corresponding to cuneiform clay tablets excavated at Ras Šamrah in Syria , Bél/Bä’äl (Lord, Owner) is also referred to as Zebul/Zabul which means Prince, Lord (as stated in Tanmoy’s post) and even denotes the state of being ‘exalted’. By meanly manipulating the pronunciation in Hebrew one actually will arrive at a similar-sounding word, this being zevel (zibl in Arabic) meaning dung [note that I don’t use such Səmitic ‘grammar’ so can’t place pronunciation-diacritics]. Thus the Hebrew-to-Philistine taunt, ‘Bä’älZevel’ --which is to say, ‘Lord of the Dung’. This is the confusion with the name Isabel/Jezebel being thought to mean 'Where's the Dung?' It really does denote Prince/Lord in proper context. I noticed that this Hebraic term for dung not to be one Biblical as 2Kings 9:37 employs a different word in haTanakh (the Hebrew Bible) where it reads, “the corpse of Jezebel will certainly become as dung”. While the name does not denote ‘Bä’äl’s daughter’, God’s Word records wicked Queen Jezebel as being a bigtime Bä’äl-worshiper like her father before her.
So it would appear that Biblical King EthBä'äl probably wasn't deeming the birth of a daughter to himself (rather than a son) as something ‘dungy’ to the royal line, as I had earlier speculated. All the same there was that boy-better-than-girl mentality with men in antique ages.. and such an attitude continues to exist amongst certain people today, I suppose. Why then would this king have named his baby girl such a thing? one has to ponder this. I imagine a maidservant come to the king, informing him that his child has been brought to birth. His majesty hastens into the royal natal chamber, eager to hold his newborn king-to-be secure in his arms. Yet here the first sight meeting his eyes is a girl, a princess. And all the king can ask is, 'Where's the Prince?'; hence this query becomes her name, a perpetual reminder to Jezebel that her father-the-king was initially disappointed on seeing her. Depressing in that case. Again this is all conjecture, though not without precedent. This method of baby-naming was not uncommon in Biblical times, nor is it today.
Some paradigms: when Jācob(Yä’ŏqọv in Hebrew) was born, his hand was holding onto the heel of his twin-brother’s foot; his father therefore named him according to this sight. [see Genesis 25:24-6] Further, when Jacob’s second son by Rā́ħél was being born, the delivery was so difficult that it cost the mother her life-- and as she died, Rā́ħél called her child Ben-’ọní meaning Son of My Mourning. This was therefore the boy’s name until his father changed it to Benjamin. [see Genesis 35:16-9] A present-day example would be the birth of actress Fairuza Balk: the moment he saw his daughter's turquoise-blue irises, her father Solomon exclaimed in فارسی, "Fairuza!" Subsequently such served as the child's name. Alas nomenclature...
Yeredh
Yes, after all these years I finally am posting online with my real name...
"for once... let me look on you with my own eyes"
--Anakin Skywalker, SW6
> would any father call his son "prince"?
I suppose any father could call his son "Prince" out of parental affection.
> There is only one Jezebel in the Bible, and she is wicked
> and mean, definitely no-one to identify with. So why should
> her name be given either by Jews or Christians?
Over the centuries people began naming their baby girls Jezebel/Isabel (and all its variations) without likely realizing just what it was that they were calling their kids by. Perhaps Isabella can sound romantic to people..
> Do you have any information about the further Jewish use
> of Jezebel/Izevel?
The Jewish Christian Apostle Yọħā́nā́n(John) spoke by divine inspiration of another 'Jezebel' @Revelation 2:18-23 in the Christian-Greek Scriptures(New Testament); while such was not her real name, this "woman" had declared herself a 'prophetess' in the midst of the Christian congregation (of the 1st century-era) yet her wicked and immoral behaviour was parallel unto infamous Queen Jezebel --which is the reason that such a dungy epithet was used to distinguish her.
> What books or other sources do you use?
Well, that's going somewhat off-topic, given that it's not a name-related question.. I'll post a reply to it over in 'The Lounge' board under "conversation continued from Name Facts Board id=49485"
Anyjow, I have conducted some further research and I must somewhat revise my earlier examination of this mid-eastern name, Isabel.
The Bä’äl venerated by the Philistines at their ancient city of Eqrọn was Zəvüv, that is to say in English, Baal-zebub/Beelzebub; this name is interchangeable with Beel-Zeboul(Zebül?). Now, it would seemed to have been a customary habit in ancient Yisraël to alter the names attributed to pagan deities worshiped by the surrounding peoples, substituting words which exhibited a resemblance in pronunciation though dishonorable in context. Corresponding to cuneiform clay tablets excavated at Ras Šamrah in Syria , Bél/Bä’äl (Lord, Owner) is also referred to as Zebul/Zabul which means Prince, Lord (as stated in Tanmoy’s post) and even denotes the state of being ‘exalted’. By meanly manipulating the pronunciation in Hebrew one actually will arrive at a similar-sounding word, this being zevel (zibl in Arabic) meaning dung [note that I don’t use such Səmitic ‘grammar’ so can’t place pronunciation-diacritics]. Thus the Hebrew-to-Philistine taunt, ‘Bä’älZevel’ --which is to say, ‘Lord of the Dung’. This is the confusion with the name Isabel/Jezebel being thought to mean 'Where's the Dung?' It really does denote Prince/Lord in proper context. I noticed that this Hebraic term for dung not to be one Biblical as 2Kings 9:37 employs a different word in haTanakh (the Hebrew Bible) where it reads, “the corpse of Jezebel will certainly become as dung”. While the name does not denote ‘Bä’äl’s daughter’, God’s Word records wicked Queen Jezebel as being a bigtime Bä’äl-worshiper like her father before her.
So it would appear that Biblical King EthBä'äl probably wasn't deeming the birth of a daughter to himself (rather than a son) as something ‘dungy’ to the royal line, as I had earlier speculated. All the same there was that boy-better-than-girl mentality with men in antique ages.. and such an attitude continues to exist amongst certain people today, I suppose. Why then would this king have named his baby girl such a thing? one has to ponder this. I imagine a maidservant come to the king, informing him that his child has been brought to birth. His majesty hastens into the royal natal chamber, eager to hold his newborn king-to-be secure in his arms. Yet here the first sight meeting his eyes is a girl, a princess. And all the king can ask is, 'Where's the Prince?'; hence this query becomes her name, a perpetual reminder to Jezebel that her father-the-king was initially disappointed on seeing her. Depressing in that case. Again this is all conjecture, though not without precedent. This method of baby-naming was not uncommon in Biblical times, nor is it today.
Some paradigms: when Jācob(Yä’ŏqọv in Hebrew) was born, his hand was holding onto the heel of his twin-brother’s foot; his father therefore named him according to this sight. [see Genesis 25:24-6] Further, when Jacob’s second son by Rā́ħél was being born, the delivery was so difficult that it cost the mother her life-- and as she died, Rā́ħél called her child Ben-’ọní meaning Son of My Mourning. This was therefore the boy’s name until his father changed it to Benjamin. [see Genesis 35:16-9] A present-day example would be the birth of actress Fairuza Balk: the moment he saw his daughter's turquoise-blue irises, her father Solomon exclaimed in فارسی, "Fairuza!" Subsequently such served as the child's name. Alas nomenclature...
Yeredh
1