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ArchivesRe: About Teagan
in reply to a message by Magia
I don't know Gaelic, but I do know a little about spelling!
If a language gets written down, the spelling becomes standardised. Then, if the pronunciation changes later, the spelling no longer matches it. That's Point #1. Example being the cuckoo - in Middle English the word cuckoo copies the bird's call exactly, with the u being the same sound as the u in up. But then the pronunciation of English got out of step with the spelling, so now the English call the bird a coocoo while it goes on happily speaking Middle English.
Point #2 has to do with colonialism. In South Africa, two of the local languages that are very closely related, closer than Spanish and Portuguese for instance, and mutually comprehensible, have different spelling systems because they were originally written down by missionaries who spoke different (Western) languages. So one set of spellings looks English and the other, French.
Point #3 is related to Point #2 - even though it might make life easier for people who don't speak your personal language, say Gaelic, you might well be reluctant to change the spelling to make it easier for them. Who are they, anyway? Historically, the oppressors of your people, very often. (A friend of mine worked in Dublin for some years and developed a rule for Irish spelling: In order to spell any Irish word, take the alphabet. Throw it against the wall. Look at the letters which end up on top, and remove those which make or seem to make recognisable English sounds in the word you want. Repeat until you have a set of letters with no visible connection with the sound of your word. That is the correct Irish spelling ...)
If a language gets written down, the spelling becomes standardised. Then, if the pronunciation changes later, the spelling no longer matches it. That's Point #1. Example being the cuckoo - in Middle English the word cuckoo copies the bird's call exactly, with the u being the same sound as the u in up. But then the pronunciation of English got out of step with the spelling, so now the English call the bird a coocoo while it goes on happily speaking Middle English.
Point #2 has to do with colonialism. In South Africa, two of the local languages that are very closely related, closer than Spanish and Portuguese for instance, and mutually comprehensible, have different spelling systems because they were originally written down by missionaries who spoke different (Western) languages. So one set of spellings looks English and the other, French.
Point #3 is related to Point #2 - even though it might make life easier for people who don't speak your personal language, say Gaelic, you might well be reluctant to change the spelling to make it easier for them. Who are they, anyway? Historically, the oppressors of your people, very often. (A friend of mine worked in Dublin for some years and developed a rule for Irish spelling: In order to spell any Irish word, take the alphabet. Throw it against the wall. Look at the letters which end up on top, and remove those which make or seem to make recognisable English sounds in the word you want. Repeat until you have a set of letters with no visible connection with the sound of your word. That is the correct Irish spelling ...)
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Replies
So, which is the proper prn for Tadghan? and if Tadghan is the original proper form of the name, how come it is not listed on this site??
*Thanks everyone, for your kind assistance!!
*Thanks everyone, for your kind assistance!!
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And another option...
Tadhgan is spelt Tadhgan, and it's a boys name, a diminutive form of Tadhg (teeg). Teagan arises from confusion. There are two welsh names, Tegan (teg-ann) and Megan (meg-ann). Megan was mistaken by Colleen McCullough for an Irish name (the Thorn Birds). The spelling Meghan developed. The name name became confused with the Irish surname Meaghan (mee-un), and an evil hybrid, Meaghan (meeg-un) arose (as the Irish name shows, the h should make the g silent. Doh!). So when people came across Tegan in name books, they assumed it was tee-gan (possibly vaguely aware of an Irish name Tadhg - see that h making the d silent?) and respelt it as Teagan, thus perpetuating the whole horrible pile of ignorance.
It would probably have made things simpler if the Celtic languages had chosen another alphabet - this would cure people of the delusion that they understand the qualities of the letters they are looking at, just because English is written in an alphabet that looks the same.
Oh whoops. Did I say all that out loud?
Tadhgan is spelt Tadhgan, and it's a boys name, a diminutive form of Tadhg (teeg). Teagan arises from confusion. There are two welsh names, Tegan (teg-ann) and Megan (meg-ann). Megan was mistaken by Colleen McCullough for an Irish name (the Thorn Birds). The spelling Meghan developed. The name name became confused with the Irish surname Meaghan (mee-un), and an evil hybrid, Meaghan (meeg-un) arose (as the Irish name shows, the h should make the g silent. Doh!). So when people came across Tegan in name books, they assumed it was tee-gan (possibly vaguely aware of an Irish name Tadhg - see that h making the d silent?) and respelt it as Teagan, thus perpetuating the whole horrible pile of ignorance.
It would probably have made things simpler if the Celtic languages had chosen another alphabet - this would cure people of the delusion that they understand the qualities of the letters they are looking at, just because English is written in an alphabet that looks the same.
Oh whoops. Did I say all that out loud?
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Indeed
or in the North of Ireland, more like Tayg. But most English speakers are only familiar with the teeg pronounciation associated with the surnames Teague or MacTeague, or Teagan and Deegan (which can have other origins than Tadhg).
In Scotland, incidentally, the name is spelt Taog and apparently pronounced tuk' by Gaelic speakers. Now there's a splendid name.
;)
or in the North of Ireland, more like Tayg. But most English speakers are only familiar with the teeg pronounciation associated with the surnames Teague or MacTeague, or Teagan and Deegan (which can have other origins than Tadhg).
In Scotland, incidentally, the name is spelt Taog and apparently pronounced tuk' by Gaelic speakers. Now there's a splendid name.
;)
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off topic question for Merriment?
hi -- i haven't been able to get on the other board (norah's) since friday. have you had any problems?
thanks
elizabeth
(oh, i enjoyed your lecture ;-)
hi -- i haven't been able to get on the other board (norah's) since friday. have you had any problems?
thanks
elizabeth
(oh, i enjoyed your lecture ;-)
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Yep - away in London the weekend
And thought it was just my parents' connection playing up, but other people have had the same problem. I can get in now though - have you tried a different link?
And thought it was just my parents' connection playing up, but other people have had the same problem. I can get in now though - have you tried a different link?
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hmmmm
i still can't get through -- i tried my bookmarked link -- it's the same address as the link i got through google -- don't know what else to try...
do you have any suggestions? psych@thesurf.net
thanks, merriment...
elizabeth.
i still can't get through -- i tried my bookmarked link -- it's the same address as the link i got through google -- don't know what else to try...
do you have any suggestions? psych@thesurf.net
thanks, merriment...
elizabeth.
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I like this explanation. I have never been happy with the fact that, just because there is a bunch of people that do not know how to read a certain language in its proper form, out numbering the ones who originated it, this original and meaningful way should go down the drain...
Thanks so much for the lesson!!
Thanks so much for the lesson!!
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Good, good...
helpfully obnoxious and lecturing, that's me.
:)
helpfully obnoxious and lecturing, that's me.
:)
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Oh yes, you did! And please continue to do so - it's most interesting.
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