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ArchivesI have 2 Q's
1. Does any one know the East Indian word/name/sound for "Queen of India"? And what does QOI reference to or mean? I heard some people hail a lady they honored calling her QOI, but it was in a dialect spoken amoung the Hindu peoples.
2. When someone has more than three names in their name, how is it determined what the middle name is, and what is the chain of command (for lack of a better phrase) within one's name structure? I have often wondered about that and remember reading some stuff somewhere but, do not remember anymore.
sr
2. When someone has more than three names in their name, how is it determined what the middle name is, and what is the chain of command (for lack of a better phrase) within one's name structure? I have often wondered about that and remember reading some stuff somewhere but, do not remember anymore.
sr
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About middle names in Sweden
In Sweden, you can have three, four or more names without having a middle name. A middle name is a surname, either the mother's or the father's. You have to tell the tax authorities that this is a middle name. Then the child is officially call yourself "Ylva Jansson Lind" for instance. One parent's surname is Janson, the other's Lind. If the mother has taken the father's surname, the children cannot not have a middle name.
The others are all given names (1st, 2nd, 3rd). As in Ylva Elisabeth Maria. If my name is Ylva Elisabeth Maria Jansson, none of them is a middle name.
Then we have "tilltalsnamn" (the name people call us, don't know what the English word is). This we also tell the tax authorities. It is usually the first given name, but can also be the second or the third. Ylva Elisabeth Maria may be called Ylva, Elisabeth or Maria.
People sometimes say that we should place the "tilltalsnamn" first, b/c even if it works in Sweden, it does not work in USA. Of course, most of us don't move to USA, so I don't think this is a valid argument. I think the rhytm of the names is more important.
In Sweden, you can have three, four or more names without having a middle name. A middle name is a surname, either the mother's or the father's. You have to tell the tax authorities that this is a middle name. Then the child is officially call yourself "Ylva Jansson Lind" for instance. One parent's surname is Janson, the other's Lind. If the mother has taken the father's surname, the children cannot not have a middle name.
The others are all given names (1st, 2nd, 3rd). As in Ylva Elisabeth Maria. If my name is Ylva Elisabeth Maria Jansson, none of them is a middle name.
Then we have "tilltalsnamn" (the name people call us, don't know what the English word is). This we also tell the tax authorities. It is usually the first given name, but can also be the second or the third. Ylva Elisabeth Maria may be called Ylva, Elisabeth or Maria.
People sometimes say that we should place the "tilltalsnamn" first, b/c even if it works in Sweden, it does not work in USA. Of course, most of us don't move to USA, so I don't think this is a valid argument. I think the rhytm of the names is more important.
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Rani means "queen", and Maharani "high queen/empress". Now you have to find how to say India lol
~~ Claire ~~
My ! are Alia, Eidel, Enola, Israel, Dudel, Yuri, Lina, Lorelei, Leilani, Owen, Julian, Glorinda, Mirinda
My ? are Hillel, Meshullam, Johnny, Ginny, Cordelia, Fiammetta, Yocheved
My ~ are Tehila, Tilda, Hailey, Gillian, Huldah
My / are Aglaia and July
~~ Claire ~~
My ! are Alia, Eidel, Enola, Israel, Dudel, Yuri, Lina, Lorelei, Leilani, Owen, Julian, Glorinda, Mirinda
My ? are Hillel, Meshullam, Johnny, Ginny, Cordelia, Fiammetta, Yocheved
My ~ are Tehila, Tilda, Hailey, Gillian, Huldah
My / are Aglaia and July
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The Sanskrit name for India is "Bharat".
*Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?* - Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket", Seneca Nation
*Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?* - Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket", Seneca Nation
This message was edited 5/30/2005, 7:00 AM
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Bharat Rani maybe? Or Rani Bharat? unless there's a of... lol, we need an Indian person here!
~~ Claire ~~
My ! are Alia, Eidel, Enola, Israel, Dudel, Yuri, Lina, Lorelei, Leilani, Owen, Julian, Glorinda, Mirinda
My ? are Hillel, Meshullam, Johnny, Ginny, Cordelia, Fiammetta, Yocheved
My ~ are Tehila, Tilda, Hailey, Gillian, Huldah
My / are Aglaia and July
~~ Claire ~~
My ! are Alia, Eidel, Enola, Israel, Dudel, Yuri, Lina, Lorelei, Leilani, Owen, Julian, Glorinda, Mirinda
My ? are Hillel, Meshullam, Johnny, Ginny, Cordelia, Fiammetta, Yocheved
My ~ are Tehila, Tilda, Hailey, Gillian, Huldah
My / are Aglaia and July
1
The natural word order in the New Indo Aryan languages is adjective/attribute followed by the noun being qualified. But, attributive uses of nouns as well as novel combinations of words into single words are both rare now. And rANi is not Sanskrit: it was rAjJi (the J is the Harvard-Kyoto transliteration for a letter in the alphabet that is a palatal n, somewhat like the Spanish n~. The pronounciation of jJ has changed rapidly becoming gy in some place and dn in some others, sometimes with residual nasalization). rAjJi corresponded with raNNi in some prakrit dialects, and that became rAni.
Today, depending on the language, you will need to make that bhArat bit into a possessive. So, bhArat rANi is possible, but bhArat ki rANi is more common. bhArat samrAjJI, empress of India, is much more common since both bits are now Sanskrit.
The more common word for India in the recent period has been hind, a word of Persian extraction (ultimately from the Sanskrit word sindh, meaning a river and often extended to other bodies of water: the same word which also gave us the Greek name for the river Indus, the European word for the country India, the common name for the country Hindustan, the name for India in some middle eastern languages, the name for the dominant language Hindi, and the name for the dominant religion Hindu).
Today, depending on the language, you will need to make that bhArat bit into a possessive. So, bhArat rANi is possible, but bhArat ki rANi is more common. bhArat samrAjJI, empress of India, is much more common since both bits are now Sanskrit.
The more common word for India in the recent period has been hind, a word of Persian extraction (ultimately from the Sanskrit word sindh, meaning a river and often extended to other bodies of water: the same word which also gave us the Greek name for the river Indus, the European word for the country India, the common name for the country Hindustan, the name for India in some middle eastern languages, the name for the dominant language Hindi, and the name for the dominant religion Hindu).
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1. India was then part of the British Empire in 1877. At that time, Queen Victoria was titled Empress of India. When she died in 1901, her son, Edward VII, became Emperor of India. This title continued until India became independant from the UK on 15 Aug 1947.
Someone could be calling Victoria Queen of India from a blending of her United Kingdom title and her Indian title. That's all that I can think of, but of course I could be wrong.
2. All names that come after the first given name and before the family name are called middle names. It's the person's choice what ones, if any, they use.
Miranda
Proud adopter of 15 PPs. See my profile for their names.
Someone could be calling Victoria Queen of India from a blending of her United Kingdom title and her Indian title. That's all that I can think of, but of course I could be wrong.
2. All names that come after the first given name and before the family name are called middle names. It's the person's choice what ones, if any, they use.
Proud adopter of 15 PPs. See my profile for their names.
1
From Nov 1 1858 (when the East India Company sold its Indian possessions to the monarch) till the end of 1876 (after which she styled herself the Empress of India), Queen Victoria was the monarch of India and ruled through her viceroys. In this period, she made the then Calcutta the Royal capital (of course, it became the Imperial Capital later). So, I guess, in that period, she was the Queen of India (in addition to her other territorries).
I am not clear what the original poster was asking, though.
On the second point, I think what is called the middle name is culture dependent: I know of lots of examples of multiword first names and multiword last names where the middle ones are not considered middle names. Thus, I knew a Arifa Ali Khan with Ali not being the middle name, but just the first word of the last name.
I am not clear what the original poster was asking, though.
On the second point, I think what is called the middle name is culture dependent: I know of lots of examples of multiword first names and multiword last names where the middle ones are not considered middle names. Thus, I knew a Arifa Ali Khan with Ali not being the middle name, but just the first word of the last name.
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Thank you for the information.
Qe1. Is there an Indian name that means Queen of India? And I wonder why a Hindu would call someone not Hindu Queen of India? Maybe this is more of a linguistic question but, I did hear a very specific name called the lady I am speaking about, but I cannot remember what it was other than when I asked my friend with me what the people were calling her she said "They are calling her Queen of India".
Seems like I remember that the woman called "Mother Teresa" was called by by the people she served Queen or Mother of India and for good reason she literally did pour out her milk of human kindness in service to all the Indian people. This instance I spoke of happened quite recently and I do not think it had any reference to that queen of the British Isles.
Qe2. Does anyone know what the chain of command in a name's names are and what they are called? I know I read at least one Phd book on nomonology, and several articles and reports discussing name meanings and their histories and orgins that dealt in detail with the question. There is a word for it but I can only think of chain of command to describe the word. Name lines are much like writting sentences there is an order and place with its own title and rank and I'd like to know (again) what that is, I just cannot remember.
sr
sr
Qe1. Is there an Indian name that means Queen of India? And I wonder why a Hindu would call someone not Hindu Queen of India? Maybe this is more of a linguistic question but, I did hear a very specific name called the lady I am speaking about, but I cannot remember what it was other than when I asked my friend with me what the people were calling her she said "They are calling her Queen of India".
Seems like I remember that the woman called "Mother Teresa" was called by by the people she served Queen or Mother of India and for good reason she literally did pour out her milk of human kindness in service to all the Indian people. This instance I spoke of happened quite recently and I do not think it had any reference to that queen of the British Isles.
Qe2. Does anyone know what the chain of command in a name's names are and what they are called? I know I read at least one Phd book on nomonology, and several articles and reports discussing name meanings and their histories and orgins that dealt in detail with the question. There is a word for it but I can only think of chain of command to describe the word. Name lines are much like writting sentences there is an order and place with its own title and rank and I'd like to know (again) what that is, I just cannot remember.
sr
sr
1
I do not know whether there is an Indian name meaning Queen of India: in modern times many people use many things as names: apocryphally, someone named their daughter `nIl AkAshe ekTi tArA' which means `a [lone] star in the blue sky' in Bengali. Furthermore, India speaks a variety of languages, most of which belong to two language families. The constitution guarantees the freedom to use any one of twenty languages in most official settings, the number of mutually unintelligible dialects running into 100s, and I know very few of them.
Most religions have various extreme versions, but by and large, very few sects of Hinduism would think that the `Queen' has to be a Hindu. Moreover, Hinduism does not `define' most people who think of themselves as Hindu: religion may well form the source of their cultural and moral values, it certainly does not colour their rational views about the world. A queen is a secular title and not a religious one, so there is no perceived conflict according to most Hindus.
Also, India is not Hindu alone. There is a large 15% of others, most of whom are Muslims, but there are a large number of Parsees, not to mention the Jain, Buddhist, Jewish and Christian people. Also, the fraction would have been smaller if the British census did not force Indians to classify their religion into their predefined notions: larging forging Hindu and Muslim identities as a byproduct.
Finally, it is not a linguistic question. Hindus speak all the 100s of dialects, and they do have words for Queen, and a word for India.
Calling Mother Teresa, a very respected figure incidentally, as the Queen is something I am not familiar with, and feels very non-Indian to me: queen in most contexts connotes concepts of wealth, and maybe beauty, but not spirit. Her deep human empathy would be insulted by such an epithet: she was like a mother to many and her kindness much appreciated, her belief in only one right way of being in touch with the Supreme, and her evangelism, much less so.
Most religions have various extreme versions, but by and large, very few sects of Hinduism would think that the `Queen' has to be a Hindu. Moreover, Hinduism does not `define' most people who think of themselves as Hindu: religion may well form the source of their cultural and moral values, it certainly does not colour their rational views about the world. A queen is a secular title and not a religious one, so there is no perceived conflict according to most Hindus.
Also, India is not Hindu alone. There is a large 15% of others, most of whom are Muslims, but there are a large number of Parsees, not to mention the Jain, Buddhist, Jewish and Christian people. Also, the fraction would have been smaller if the British census did not force Indians to classify their religion into their predefined notions: larging forging Hindu and Muslim identities as a byproduct.
Finally, it is not a linguistic question. Hindus speak all the 100s of dialects, and they do have words for Queen, and a word for India.
Calling Mother Teresa, a very respected figure incidentally, as the Queen is something I am not familiar with, and feels very non-Indian to me: queen in most contexts connotes concepts of wealth, and maybe beauty, but not spirit. Her deep human empathy would be insulted by such an epithet: she was like a mother to many and her kindness much appreciated, her belief in only one right way of being in touch with the Supreme, and her evangelism, much less so.
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