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ArchivesRe: Well, Chinese is written with Chinese characters
in reply to a message by Ylva
The question is not whether it must have a meaning in chinese: I agree with you that anything written in Kanji automatically has a meaning. This applies not only to Chinese, but also to Japanese, where, one needs, for some sense of need, a Kanji name for his/her official stamp. The question is whether one is allowed to `invent' a name. So, if there never has been a MeiLi in known chinese memory, can one still name a baby MeiLi?
My question about iceland is which of the following statements best (in the sense of mutual information across all nations or national identities) explains the law that one needs an icelandic name (Incidentally, I am guessing icelandic name does not mean `has a meaning in icelandic', rather it means `has been historically used in iceland'):
(a) iceland is worried about its culture getting diluted.
(b) iceland is European
(c) iceland is Judaeo-christian-muslim
Note that a country might easily explain its own rule by quoting (a), but it is possible that the best explanation is not actually (a). For (a) to be the best explanation in my sense, one has to check whether a disproportionately high fraction of nations with similar rules also are worried about the culture or vice-versa; compared to similar statements with (b) and (c).
Is this thread still on-topic? Else, please feel free to take it off board.
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http://tanmoy.tripod.com/
My question about iceland is which of the following statements best (in the sense of mutual information across all nations or national identities) explains the law that one needs an icelandic name (Incidentally, I am guessing icelandic name does not mean `has a meaning in icelandic', rather it means `has been historically used in iceland'):
(a) iceland is worried about its culture getting diluted.
(b) iceland is European
(c) iceland is Judaeo-christian-muslim
Note that a country might easily explain its own rule by quoting (a), but it is possible that the best explanation is not actually (a). For (a) to be the best explanation in my sense, one has to check whether a disproportionately high fraction of nations with similar rules also are worried about the culture or vice-versa; compared to similar statements with (b) and (c).
Is this thread still on-topic? Else, please feel free to take it off board.
---
http://tanmoy.tripod.com/
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Replies
In theory, parents invent their children's names
So the accusation "this name is made-up" would be rather pointless there. The parents (or the paternal grandfather) make up the names. There used to be a "generation part", common for all siblings (or all siblings of the same sex) and an individula part.
Examples: Ai-ling, Chong-ling and Mei-ling for three sisters.
In practise, parents have limited imagination so therefore there are many children with the same names. Also, while some names sound good for both sexes, some are definitely for girls (names with flowers for instance).
I have no proof but I am certain that in Iceland it depends on a). Many Icelandic names are old names, used before Christianity was introduced. So c) does not apply. And I don't see what European has to do with, since other European countries don't have the same rules. In Sweden, for instance, immigrants keep their names, however strange they may sound to Swedish ears.
So the accusation "this name is made-up" would be rather pointless there. The parents (or the paternal grandfather) make up the names. There used to be a "generation part", common for all siblings (or all siblings of the same sex) and an individula part.
Examples: Ai-ling, Chong-ling and Mei-ling for three sisters.
In practise, parents have limited imagination so therefore there are many children with the same names. Also, while some names sound good for both sexes, some are definitely for girls (names with flowers for instance).
I have no proof but I am certain that in Iceland it depends on a). Many Icelandic names are old names, used before Christianity was introduced. So c) does not apply. And I don't see what European has to do with, since other European countries don't have the same rules. In Sweden, for instance, immigrants keep their names, however strange they may sound to Swedish ears.
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"Made-up" versus "made-up"
I said it before, but I'll say it again: there's a difference between the non-etymologically "made-up" and "made-up" as in "I've made up this name by combining x etymological element and y etymological element".
Here, names like Kashynleigh or Taniqua are generally frowned upon because they're made up out of etymologically meaningless pretty-sounding elements. On the other hand, a name like Mativa, made up out of the Germanic elements maht "might"/"strength" and iv "yew", has a legitimate, etymologically tracible meaning. (Of course, Mativa isn't kewt like McKynleigh is, and probably wouldn't appeal to tryndees... but oh well.)
This is an etymology board that just happens to focus on names. When someone says "made up" here, 99% of the time they're talking about the non-etymological made up unless it's specifically stated otherwise by context.
This is off-topic to this post, but I just wanted to clarify what "made up" generally means here. Er... Chinese parents do follow the etymologically-meaningful kind of "made up"... See, I made this post on-topic! :-D
EDIT: + last paragraph
Miranda
"...his fingers trailing over your belly, your thighs quacking..." — From a The Lord of the Rings crapfic
Proud adopter of 15 punctuation marks.
I said it before, but I'll say it again: there's a difference between the non-etymologically "made-up" and "made-up" as in "I've made up this name by combining x etymological element and y etymological element".
Here, names like Kashynleigh or Taniqua are generally frowned upon because they're made up out of etymologically meaningless pretty-sounding elements. On the other hand, a name like Mativa, made up out of the Germanic elements maht "might"/"strength" and iv "yew", has a legitimate, etymologically tracible meaning. (Of course, Mativa isn't kewt like McKynleigh is, and probably wouldn't appeal to tryndees... but oh well.)
This is an etymology board that just happens to focus on names. When someone says "made up" here, 99% of the time they're talking about the non-etymological made up unless it's specifically stated otherwise by context.
This is off-topic to this post, but I just wanted to clarify what "made up" generally means here. Er... Chinese parents do follow the etymologically-meaningful kind of "made up"... See, I made this post on-topic! :-D
EDIT: + last paragraph
"...his fingers trailing over your belly, your thighs quacking..." — From a The Lord of the Rings crapfic
Proud adopter of 15 punctuation marks.
This message was edited 5/10/2005, 6:47 PM
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Thanks.
Thus far I have gathered from your post:
So china does not have a rule enforcing names, but iceland has. The only place where names that we have discussed so far are enforced are currently christian majority and either European or south America whose current culture derives in recent (within a few hundred years) times from Europe. The names that are enforced are often pre-Christian (which, of course, is actually true for most `Christian' names :-)
Can anyone provide evidence that will extend this? (i.e. non-European or non-Christian culture enforcing historical names?)
Thus far I have gathered from your post:
So china does not have a rule enforcing names, but iceland has. The only place where names that we have discussed so far are enforced are currently christian majority and either European or south America whose current culture derives in recent (within a few hundred years) times from Europe. The names that are enforced are often pre-Christian (which, of course, is actually true for most `Christian' names :-)
Can anyone provide evidence that will extend this? (i.e. non-European or non-Christian culture enforcing historical names?)
1