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ArchivesRe: On constructed languages
in reply to a message by Pavlos
I lived in Yugoslavia for 14 years (untill it fell apart)and I never heard about macedonian being a constructed language! OK, it is true I am from Slovenia, but we learnt some macedonian in elementary school and nobody ever told us this is an artifficial language. So, frankly, I cannot belive this. Where does your information come from?
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PS
> we learnt some macedonian in elementary school and nobody ever told us this is an artifficial language. So, frankly, I cannot belive this
You were fortunate enough to grow in a non-Stalinist socialist republic (as opposed to say N. Korea or Albania!), however I do hope you did not believe everything taught to you during the Tito regime!
...I never believed *everything* they told me in school, as the "cold war" was raging.
> we learnt some macedonian in elementary school and nobody ever told us this is an artifficial language. So, frankly, I cannot belive this
You were fortunate enough to grow in a non-Stalinist socialist republic (as opposed to say N. Korea or Albania!), however I do hope you did not believe everything taught to you during the Tito regime!
...I never believed *everything* they told me in school, as the "cold war" was raging.
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More on "Macedonian" as a constructed language
Hi Nana,
I feel I have opened a can of worms! This is a topic where language has been used to serve rival Balkan politics to a large extent, and most sources are extremely biased to be reliable.
My point is that, prior to 1944 the language now known as “Macedonian” was in fact a Bulgarian dialect. After 1944, the dialect was fused with some Serbo-Croatian grammatical rules to differentiate it from Bulgarian.
Here’s the scoop in a nutshell:
- Bulgarians resent the fact that Tito dubbed Yugoslavia’s Bulgarian minority “Macedonian” so as to alienate them from “mother Bulgaria”.
- The government of FYROM is facing increasing hostility from a substantial separatist Albanian minority. They are much better off economically that either Albania or Bulgaria, and try to cling to their “new macedonian” identity, which was established in 1944.
- Greeks resent the fact that a Bulgarian dialect was dubbed “Macedonian,” as they consider that Macedonian heritage was Greek. And by "Greek", I do not imply anything racial - a Greek, or nore accurately a Hellene, is anyone who adopts Hellenic culture and education. And Alexander the Macedon's teacher was after all Aristotle. Besides, Alexander is a Greek name, he spoke Greek, his father Philip had a Greek name, and his horse had a Greek name (Bucephalus). All antiquities and written records found in Macedonia (northern Greece) are in Greek. Macedonia, itself, is derived from the Hellenic “makednos” meaning “tall, long” (Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon”) In brief, if it walks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it’s a duck!
Hi Nana,
I feel I have opened a can of worms! This is a topic where language has been used to serve rival Balkan politics to a large extent, and most sources are extremely biased to be reliable.
My point is that, prior to 1944 the language now known as “Macedonian” was in fact a Bulgarian dialect. After 1944, the dialect was fused with some Serbo-Croatian grammatical rules to differentiate it from Bulgarian.
Here’s the scoop in a nutshell:
- Bulgarians resent the fact that Tito dubbed Yugoslavia’s Bulgarian minority “Macedonian” so as to alienate them from “mother Bulgaria”.
- The government of FYROM is facing increasing hostility from a substantial separatist Albanian minority. They are much better off economically that either Albania or Bulgaria, and try to cling to their “new macedonian” identity, which was established in 1944.
- Greeks resent the fact that a Bulgarian dialect was dubbed “Macedonian,” as they consider that Macedonian heritage was Greek. And by "Greek", I do not imply anything racial - a Greek, or nore accurately a Hellene, is anyone who adopts Hellenic culture and education. And Alexander the Macedon's teacher was after all Aristotle. Besides, Alexander is a Greek name, he spoke Greek, his father Philip had a Greek name, and his horse had a Greek name (Bucephalus). All antiquities and written records found in Macedonia (northern Greece) are in Greek. Macedonia, itself, is derived from the Hellenic “makednos” meaning “tall, long” (Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon”) In brief, if it walks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it’s a duck!
1
hmm, interesting...
I found out some things I didn`t know, but I am stil under the impression, that those information sources are not very reliable.
So I am sort of confused now-what is the truth? I would say it is somewhere in between, as usual :))
As I understand, macedonian language was not pure bulgarian even in the past, but sort of variation of bulgarian language and
it evolved in a separate language under the serbian influence. Isn`t that the way the new languages usually develop?
All in all, it is a fact that the inhabitats of Macedonia or FYROM do not feel bulgarian at all, so why not ackowledge that their
language is a unique one and not just a form of bulgarian. After all, slovenian is not so different fom croatian and they are different
languages. Croatian and Serbian are practically identical from my point of view, but are now recognized as two separate languages,
(in my opinion only because of political reasons).
Too bad politisc has to have its influence in everything. Wouldn`t life be more pleasant, if we didn`t have to worry about everything we
say or write in case we insult somebody :)))
I found out some things I didn`t know, but I am stil under the impression, that those information sources are not very reliable.
So I am sort of confused now-what is the truth? I would say it is somewhere in between, as usual :))
As I understand, macedonian language was not pure bulgarian even in the past, but sort of variation of bulgarian language and
it evolved in a separate language under the serbian influence. Isn`t that the way the new languages usually develop?
All in all, it is a fact that the inhabitats of Macedonia or FYROM do not feel bulgarian at all, so why not ackowledge that their
language is a unique one and not just a form of bulgarian. After all, slovenian is not so different fom croatian and they are different
languages. Croatian and Serbian are practically identical from my point of view, but are now recognized as two separate languages,
(in my opinion only because of political reasons).
Too bad politisc has to have its influence in everything. Wouldn`t life be more pleasant, if we didn`t have to worry about everything we
say or write in case we insult somebody :)))
1
> So I am sort of confused now-what is the truth? I would say it is somewhere in between, as usual :))
Indeed! I agree with you that the dialect in question existed for ages. My point is that nobody called this language "macedonian" before 1944, and that after 1944 its grammar was codified.
> Wouldn`t life be more pleasant, if we didn`t have to worry about everything we say or write in case we insult somebody :)))
I drink to that, Nana :)
Indeed! I agree with you that the dialect in question existed for ages. My point is that nobody called this language "macedonian" before 1944, and that after 1944 its grammar was codified.
> Wouldn`t life be more pleasant, if we didn`t have to worry about everything we say or write in case we insult somebody :)))
I drink to that, Nana :)
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