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in reply to a message by deidre
OK, this is actually interesting.
First of all, why Ryan and Shayne when, say, Jane and Elaine exist? It can't be the sound. Is it some kind of side effect of the women's movement - anything men can do, women can do better so let's name them accordingly? Or a not quite conscious feeling that people are socialised into particular sexual and gender roles, and that cross-gender naming can contribute to a kind of levelling-out process and a "better" society?
Secondly, if this is so, and I suspect it must be, presumably it's the women who do most of the baby naming. So, in rejecting traditionally female names they are rejecting traditionally female roles and endorsing - what? Hard drinkin', shootin', swearin', butch little toughies? Future presidents of colleges, multinationals and nations, on the assumption that there is still a glass ceiling for women who aspire to these positions?
And where does this leave the boys, who are not being named Priscilla or Rosalie? Are they only faced with more competitors in the career race, or are they being symbolically castrated as well? How would a little Ryan boy feel with a little Ryan girl sitting next to him in the classroom?
Finally, what about nuns? Not being RC I've only got vague impressions, but it seems to me that women who entered convents used to sometimes at least take the names of male saints, so you could get Sister Joseph or Sister Mary Patrick; now I think they are more likely to keep their own names. But did one ever get Brother John Mary, or Brother Bridget?
First of all, why Ryan and Shayne when, say, Jane and Elaine exist? It can't be the sound. Is it some kind of side effect of the women's movement - anything men can do, women can do better so let's name them accordingly? Or a not quite conscious feeling that people are socialised into particular sexual and gender roles, and that cross-gender naming can contribute to a kind of levelling-out process and a "better" society?
Secondly, if this is so, and I suspect it must be, presumably it's the women who do most of the baby naming. So, in rejecting traditionally female names they are rejecting traditionally female roles and endorsing - what? Hard drinkin', shootin', swearin', butch little toughies? Future presidents of colleges, multinationals and nations, on the assumption that there is still a glass ceiling for women who aspire to these positions?
And where does this leave the boys, who are not being named Priscilla or Rosalie? Are they only faced with more competitors in the career race, or are they being symbolically castrated as well? How would a little Ryan boy feel with a little Ryan girl sitting next to him in the classroom?
Finally, what about nuns? Not being RC I've only got vague impressions, but it seems to me that women who entered convents used to sometimes at least take the names of male saints, so you could get Sister Joseph or Sister Mary Patrick; now I think they are more likely to keep their own names. But did one ever get Brother John Mary, or Brother Bridget?
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Replies
What if they just like the sound of the name. My brothers name is Morgan which is traditionly a female name but he isn't bothered by the fact that in his class is a girl named Morgan, nor is she worried about his name. The point is not that women want to be men, we just want to name our children something that sounds good. How about Shannon, I always thought of that as a girls name and then met two boys name that. It didn't bother them that they have been "cross-gendered". Once again I must stress that naming children has nothing to do with male-female sociology but choosing a name that you like.
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If I recall, the latino community frequently uses Maria as a middle name for their sons, but I may be incorrect here (it's been at least a decade since I've had to worry about Spanish, except for my apartment manager, but...*shrug*) As always, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Phyllis (aka Sidhe Uaine or Gaia Euphoria)
Phyllis (aka Sidhe Uaine or Gaia Euphoria)
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the problem i see is that men and women are less likely to use feminine names for their male children, while we increasingly use male names for females. what will happen when there are no names left?
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I believe that evolution is a circular process, and that in another thousand years we'll all be back to grunting, and calling people by going "Ugh" and pointing! The way spoken English is degenerating proves this. :P (Really, I'm creationist. But it's something to chew on! :D)
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ROFL
"The way spoken English is degenerating proves this."
I know. >.< (Just spoken? I'd think written is even worse. As a teenager I feel weird saying it, but grammar really needs to be taught in schools. ;_;)
Ooh, but then we get to be amoeba. Cool beans.
"The way spoken English is degenerating proves this."
I know. >.< (Just spoken? I'd think written is even worse. As a teenager I feel weird saying it, but grammar really needs to be taught in schools. ;_;)
Ooh, but then we get to be amoeba. Cool beans.
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Just another good reason to homeschool! :) (You know, when you homeschool, you have to KNOW the stuff! So you can use it correctly six months/years/decades later.)
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Hm . . .
Maybe for my hypothetical kids. ^_^ Or one of those fun schools with no classes and no homework where you choose what to study and go as fast or slow as you want . . . *_* That's my idea of heaven.
Let's see. So homeschoolers have to know things really well, and thus they learn and remember. Students who choose what they learn and teach themselves want to know it, so they learn and remember. Kids in the majority of schools that I know of do neither often. What's wrong with this picture?
Maybe for my hypothetical kids. ^_^ Or one of those fun schools with no classes and no homework where you choose what to study and go as fast or slow as you want . . . *_* That's my idea of heaven.
Let's see. So homeschoolers have to know things really well, and thus they learn and remember. Students who choose what they learn and teach themselves want to know it, so they learn and remember. Kids in the majority of schools that I know of do neither often. What's wrong with this picture?
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Or one of those fun schools with no classes and no homework where you choose what to study and go as fast or slow as you want . . . *_* That's my idea of heaven.
THAT'S Heaven!!!!! i think every kid wishes it, but if you think of the kids that would abuse that situation, the world would be run by barbaric people. But that's a wonderful idea of heaven!!!! i wish my school was like that any way!!!!
THAT'S Heaven!!!!! i think every kid wishes it, but if you think of the kids that would abuse that situation, the world would be run by barbaric people. But that's a wonderful idea of heaven!!!! i wish my school was like that any way!!!!
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Yeah, really! But what about the teachers? There you'd have to homeschool, or have a tutor/governess. My mom sets me lessons, but I took up Hebrew and AMSLAN (American Sign Language) by myself.
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Ah, the kids who would abuse it rarely learn anything in conventional schools anyway; at least, the ones I can think of . . . besides, kids might be a lot more willing to learn and teach themselves if school stopped being the symbol of all evil in our lives. (And for the ones I know, myself included, it *is*.)
It would take more teachers. But--I think even a program like that with the same number of teachers currently going would be better than the school I'm in now. It wouldn't be ideal, but considering the current situation treats education like a job and a competition . . . how much worse can it get (aside from not having free education)? That was a bad question. It can get a lot worse. ^^;; But it can also get a lot better. . . .
It would take more teachers. But--I think even a program like that with the same number of teachers currently going would be better than the school I'm in now. It wouldn't be ideal, but considering the current situation treats education like a job and a competition . . . how much worse can it get (aside from not having free education)? That was a bad question. It can get a lot worse. ^^;; But it can also get a lot better. . . .
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