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HelpThat attitude + ditto Akis
in reply to a message by Tota
It's a shame how we think it's cute for a girl to be named Hunter or Dylan, very "manly" names, but Pleasant would destroy someone's "dignity and manhood." Such double standards. Ew.
This message was edited 2/11/2007, 9:59 AM
Archived Thread - replies disabled
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Replies
i TOTALLY agree
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SING IT.
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Who is "we" who thinks it is cute for a girl to be named Hunter or Dylan? If there are people naming their daughters this, then let's start naming our sons Helga and Elisabeth. You go first.
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For my reply to "we", please see my answer to Kris Rose.
And yes, there are people naming their daughters that. Click: Hunter. Note it's even been given the "feminine" designation since the trend is so prevalent. There was just a discussion of the feminization of Dylan in a thread yesterday, but you can scroll for that yourself.
And that's the point I'm trying to make -- it is socially acceptable to name girls that, but it's scandalous to consider Helga or Elisabeth for a boy.
And yes, there are people naming their daughters that. Click: Hunter. Note it's even been given the "feminine" designation since the trend is so prevalent. There was just a discussion of the feminization of Dylan in a thread yesterday, but you can scroll for that yourself.
And that's the point I'm trying to make -- it is socially acceptable to name girls that, but it's scandalous to consider Helga or Elisabeth for a boy.
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I assure you I am not one for male names on females, and vice versa. Pleasant is a word I associate with behaviours and attitude. "Good" behaviours have always been expected from women - as is being "Nice" and "Polite", etc. This can extend to the colour "Blue" for boys and the colour "Pink" for girls. Sexist labels, if you will. These are the differences evoked upon males and females, regardless of how much you choose to disagree. This would help explain my thoughts on the name Pleasant and my example of the locker room, coming from an individual who does not applaude the use of the names Hunter, Dylan, James, Robert, on females (nor the use of words).
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Actually
I loathe Hunter, Dylan, even Mackenzie, Avery, Ashley, Bailey, Sidney for a girl, and love them on a boy.
I understand where you are coming from, but some people here dont exactly like boy names crossing the line.
At the same time, I really just dislike all word names. I only added the bit about a man because I got into it last night with a friend. Besides, in our society, females crossing the line into masculinity is more acceptable then vice versa.
Yes, I agree that if we allow one, we should allow the other. And some here may have that double standard, but dont assume all of us do.
I loathe Hunter, Dylan, even Mackenzie, Avery, Ashley, Bailey, Sidney for a girl, and love them on a boy.
I understand where you are coming from, but some people here dont exactly like boy names crossing the line.
At the same time, I really just dislike all word names. I only added the bit about a man because I got into it last night with a friend. Besides, in our society, females crossing the line into masculinity is more acceptable then vice versa.
Yes, I agree that if we allow one, we should allow the other. And some here may have that double standard, but dont assume all of us do.
This message was edited 2/11/2007, 10:03 AM
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everybody needs to keep in mind...
That most of those so-called "male names on females" were never commonly used on males till very recently. Sidney is an exception, it's been used as a fn for men for a few hundred years, and on women almost as long.
Avery, Mackenzie, Tyler, Dylan, Bailye... these were rarely given as ffirst names at all, unless they were family names. IT wasn't till about thirty years ago when Tyle r, Brandon and Ryan were used as fns at all. Dylan was almost unheard of when Dylan Thomas's parents chose it for him, it was a very minor character in Welsh mythology and was originally supposed to be pronounced Dullan. But Thomas's parents didn't know this.
I don't think it's very accurate to call names like Bailey, Avery, Mackenzie, etc, traditional male names. They haven't been fns long enough to be traditional anything.
And it is highly unlikely that truly traditional male names like James, John, Edward, etc, will ever be given to girls by more than a very few iconoclastic parents. Just as truly traditional girls' names like Maria, Jane and Elizabeth are not going to wind up on more than a very few boys.
Pleasant is not just an adjective. IT is a place name and a last name. As a last name, it is fair game to be picked up as a first or middle name.
That most of those so-called "male names on females" were never commonly used on males till very recently. Sidney is an exception, it's been used as a fn for men for a few hundred years, and on women almost as long.
Avery, Mackenzie, Tyler, Dylan, Bailye... these were rarely given as ffirst names at all, unless they were family names. IT wasn't till about thirty years ago when Tyle r, Brandon and Ryan were used as fns at all. Dylan was almost unheard of when Dylan Thomas's parents chose it for him, it was a very minor character in Welsh mythology and was originally supposed to be pronounced Dullan. But Thomas's parents didn't know this.
I don't think it's very accurate to call names like Bailey, Avery, Mackenzie, etc, traditional male names. They haven't been fns long enough to be traditional anything.
And it is highly unlikely that truly traditional male names like James, John, Edward, etc, will ever be given to girls by more than a very few iconoclastic parents. Just as truly traditional girls' names like Maria, Jane and Elizabeth are not going to wind up on more than a very few boys.
Pleasant is not just an adjective. IT is a place name and a last name. As a last name, it is fair game to be picked up as a first or middle name.
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Obviously my post was meant in a general way. I don't even know if Tota likes Dylan or Hunter or Sally Anne or whatever. My post was meant to highlight a failure in society in general.
+ I said "we", and anyone who has seen me post for any length of time knows that I dislike Dylan or Madison or whatever on girls, so it couldn't possibly have been meant literally like you're taking it.
+ I said "we", and anyone who has seen me post for any length of time knows that I dislike Dylan or Madison or whatever on girls, so it couldn't possibly have been meant literally like you're taking it.
This message was edited 2/11/2007, 10:07 AM
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I figured you meant in a general sense, but I doubt the fact that anyone who has a problem with Pleasant as a boys name is doing it because they are sexist in a way that their thinking says females can have masculine names but males cant have feminine names. Its simply we like names to be on their original/traditional gender or we simply dont like word names in general.
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That may be true for you (liking traditional gender and not word names), and it may be partly true for Tota, but s/he makes it pretty clear that there is a sexist issue going on with the comment about dignity and manhood being robbed by, horror of horrors, Pleasant as a MN. Even if s/he also dislikes boys names on girls, it is still ass backwards to assume that one's dignity and manhood lie in the balance over a MN that as a word would be considered ungendered but the poster perceived as not masculine enough for a locker room discussion (and we all know that locker room discussions define the man).
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The locker room was an example. In my opinion, the name Pleasant is a word, and not one I would immeidately associate with use on a male. I am also sure it is not a name the general population would find appealing as name for either gender. It is moreso a word than name, and as ridiculous as the words Jolly or Charming being used.
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You are continuously referring to this man with the word Pleasant as a name. Has it occurred to you or anyone that perhaps his parents enjoyed random words? This does not automatically make it a legit name. Let's take Nevaeh for example. Pleasant is not even listed on this site. What is this to say of its legitimacy?
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Actually Pleasant is a surname as well as a word and at one time it was very common for children to be given their mothers maiden name or other family surnames as middle names or even as first names.
Many of the names were use today started out as surnames.
Many of the names were use today started out as surnames.
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You are continuously referring to this man with the word Pleasant as a name. Has it occurred to you or anyone that perhaps his parents enjoyed random words?
LN: Carter
DH: Robert
DW: Mollie Bays
DS: Alvin Pleasant (Pleasant or A.P.)
DS: Jim
DS/DD: Ezra "Eck", Virgie
DS: Grant
DD: Ettaleen
DS: Ermine
DD: Sylvia
I'm going to say no, his parents weren't all out on random words, based on his family. BTW, I enjoy the way you refer to him as "this man," as though he's some random footnote in a genealogy. "This man" changed the face of popular music forever.
And Nevaeh is now a name, whether you like it or not. I don't like it, but that fact doesn't mean it isn't "real".
Besides that, quite a few legitimate names aren't listed on this site. Is Galatea no longer a name? (We'd better inform Pygmalion.) How about Hanorah? (All those 19th century Irishwomen just had dumbasses for parents.) Lisetta? (That's one of my ancestors, right there.) Bendicht? (And another one.) Langston? (Mr. Hughes would likely be disappointed if you told us his name was a lie.) So, sorry, that argument doesn't hold up. Please try again.
Array
LN: Carter
DH: Robert
DW: Mollie Bays
DS: Alvin Pleasant (Pleasant or A.P.)
DS: Jim
DS/DD: Ezra "Eck", Virgie
DS: Grant
DD: Ettaleen
DS: Ermine
DD: Sylvia
I'm going to say no, his parents weren't all out on random words, based on his family. BTW, I enjoy the way you refer to him as "this man," as though he's some random footnote in a genealogy. "This man" changed the face of popular music forever.
And Nevaeh is now a name, whether you like it or not. I don't like it, but that fact doesn't mean it isn't "real".
Besides that, quite a few legitimate names aren't listed on this site. Is Galatea no longer a name? (We'd better inform Pygmalion.) How about Hanorah? (All those 19th century Irishwomen just had dumbasses for parents.) Lisetta? (That's one of my ancestors, right there.) Bendicht? (And another one.) Langston? (Mr. Hughes would likely be disappointed if you told us his name was a lie.) So, sorry, that argument doesn't hold up. Please try again.
Array
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