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HelpHonest Question About Cultural Appropriation and Names
I have a minor situation believe it or not and I just want to ask a general question: Is it bad in the slightest to use a name that is different ethnically and culturally on your child? Cultural appropriation.
Let's say for example...
There's a couple who wants to use the name Maiara. The name is Indigenous American is the couple is European. Another lady (who happens to be Native herself) is trying to convince them to use another name considering that is cultural appropriation and to stop "stealing people's culture". Is it still okay to use? Ignore if you want.
Rate my PNL or I will boil your teeth.
https://www.behindthename.com/pnl/223227
Let's say for example...
There's a couple who wants to use the name Maiara. The name is Indigenous American is the couple is European. Another lady (who happens to be Native herself) is trying to convince them to use another name considering that is cultural appropriation and to stop "stealing people's culture". Is it still okay to use? Ignore if you want.
Rate my PNL or I will boil your teeth.
https://www.behindthename.com/pnl/223227
This message was edited 4/7/2021, 6:20 AM
Archived Thread - replies disabled
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Replies
Cultural appropriation requires something to be sacred to that culture. People take anything to be cultural appropriation nowadays and its really watering down the true meaning.
The name Cohen is culturally appropriated when you aren't Jewish. The name Bodhi is culturally appropriated if you aren't Buddhist. The name Jesus is culturally appropriated if you aren't Christian. Many Native names can be culturally appropriated as many are considered sacred within their religion.
Its not cultural appropriation just because someone of a different race uses it. It goes beyond that.
If you want to compare it to objects its like thus:
A Christian wears a rosary so that they can practice their religion wherever they go. Not appropriation.
A non-Christian wears a rosary because its a subversive and "cool" fashion statement. Appropriation.
A native American wears a headdress because they have earned it through their sacred beliefs. Not appropriation.
A non-native American (or even native American who hasn't earned it) wears a headdress because it looks cool in photos. Appropriation.
There are a lot of things that have been co-opted by other cultures that are not appropriation. The mohawk hairstyle, wearing kohl around your eyes, having a tattoo as examples.
The name Cohen is culturally appropriated when you aren't Jewish. The name Bodhi is culturally appropriated if you aren't Buddhist. The name Jesus is culturally appropriated if you aren't Christian. Many Native names can be culturally appropriated as many are considered sacred within their religion.
Its not cultural appropriation just because someone of a different race uses it. It goes beyond that.
If you want to compare it to objects its like thus:
A Christian wears a rosary so that they can practice their religion wherever they go. Not appropriation.
A non-Christian wears a rosary because its a subversive and "cool" fashion statement. Appropriation.
A native American wears a headdress because they have earned it through their sacred beliefs. Not appropriation.
A non-native American (or even native American who hasn't earned it) wears a headdress because it looks cool in photos. Appropriation.
There are a lot of things that have been co-opted by other cultures that are not appropriation. The mohawk hairstyle, wearing kohl around your eyes, having a tattoo as examples.
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I do NOT think it is cultural appropriation. People have the right to name their child whatever they’d like. I think if the couple were to name their child Maiara, they would have to explain to people it’s Indigenous, and most of them WOULDN’T care and WOULDN’T claim it’s cultural appropriation. And don’t think I am saying this because I am white, I am mostly Hispanic and I most likely have Indigenous ancestry.
This message was edited 4/7/2021, 6:09 PM
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My usual quick reply to this question: no one "owns" a name (except the user obviously).
Maiara is beautiful, they should totally use it if it is the most loved name on their list.
Maiara is beautiful, they should totally use it if it is the most loved name on their list.
This message was edited 4/7/2021, 2:52 PM
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I know that they say impact matters more than intent, but I do think that intent matters a lot in this situation. It's rarely as simple as "these white people want to interact with another culture - should they??"
I think it's tempting but unwise to say "white people should only use white people names" because it's rarely that simple and also, a lot of people who look white are actually Indigenous too, so policing who can use what based on skin colour/nationality alone is problematic. I grew up in a place where there are LOTS of "white" Native American and Metis folk. There needs to be more nuance around the topic, but people want it to be black and white.
I think of the example of Uma Thurman's father, who was a scholar of Buddhism, and how it's ok for him to give Tibetan names to his children because although he's not Tibetan, he was intimately involved with Tibetan culture. He picked the names because he liked them, obviously, but because they meant a great deal too. It wasn't just done flippantly to be "cool" or whatever.
Also, true cultural appropriation involves a certain amount of theft in that using that culture somehow robs or takes away from the culture of origin - for example, it's not really cultural appropriation when my white friend learns traditional Native beading and just sits at home beading things for herself - but it would be different if she set up a business claiming to teach and sell "Genuine Native Beading" which would take power away from an actual genuine Indigenous beading business (of course, we have friends who think that a white person does not even have the right to learn about Indigenous things, but I disagree with that). Naming one's children usually doesn't really benefit the parent in any real way - unless, say, the parents were YouTubers or bloggers or something where their child's name was like a product they are attempting to sell, to give themselves a benefit and which would impact actual Indigenous YouTubers and bloggers. If this European couple is planning to just live quietly in their little village in Portugal with a daughter named Maiara that hardly hurts anyone; it would be a different story if they were celebrities. I do think though that they should be aware that choosing a name like that comes with a certain amount of responsibility of explanation that I'm not sure I'd want to saddle a kid with.
I think it's tempting but unwise to say "white people should only use white people names" because it's rarely that simple and also, a lot of people who look white are actually Indigenous too, so policing who can use what based on skin colour/nationality alone is problematic. I grew up in a place where there are LOTS of "white" Native American and Metis folk. There needs to be more nuance around the topic, but people want it to be black and white.
I think of the example of Uma Thurman's father, who was a scholar of Buddhism, and how it's ok for him to give Tibetan names to his children because although he's not Tibetan, he was intimately involved with Tibetan culture. He picked the names because he liked them, obviously, but because they meant a great deal too. It wasn't just done flippantly to be "cool" or whatever.
Also, true cultural appropriation involves a certain amount of theft in that using that culture somehow robs or takes away from the culture of origin - for example, it's not really cultural appropriation when my white friend learns traditional Native beading and just sits at home beading things for herself - but it would be different if she set up a business claiming to teach and sell "Genuine Native Beading" which would take power away from an actual genuine Indigenous beading business (of course, we have friends who think that a white person does not even have the right to learn about Indigenous things, but I disagree with that). Naming one's children usually doesn't really benefit the parent in any real way - unless, say, the parents were YouTubers or bloggers or something where their child's name was like a product they are attempting to sell, to give themselves a benefit and which would impact actual Indigenous YouTubers and bloggers. If this European couple is planning to just live quietly in their little village in Portugal with a daughter named Maiara that hardly hurts anyone; it would be a different story if they were celebrities. I do think though that they should be aware that choosing a name like that comes with a certain amount of responsibility of explanation that I'm not sure I'd want to saddle a kid with.
This message was edited 4/7/2021, 9:24 AM
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This
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xd
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If you like the name, that's fine, but if it's not from your culture, it's best to not use it. I like the name Araceli, but I'm not Spanish, and I'm not going to use it as it's from their culture and it's in a way, stealing. I can't stop people from naming their children what they want, but if it's from a different culture it's best not to use it.
This message was edited 4/7/2021, 8:52 AM
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I don't think it's nice to lift names from another culture without an understanding of how they work in that culture. I think it's really offensive, for example, how gentiles use the surname "Cohen" as just another cute surnamey name when it's a sacred title in Jewish culture. If I liked a name that came from another culture, I would make a concerted effort to find out what it would be like to use it.
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Using a name ethnically and culturally different from your own culture is complex especially for people that have an ethnically diverse heritage and live in a multi-cultural society. Appropriation is "to take or make use of without authority or right," so the question becomes what gives someone the right and who grants authority. If someone comes to America from Vietnam and chooses to give their child a Biblical Hebrew derived name that is common in western countries, then most people aren't going to bat an eye. However, if I, a non-Vietnamese person who does not live in or plan to move to Vietnam, were to randomly use a Vietnamese name, then people would consider it very out of place and justly so. Perhaps it might be more helpful to think in terms of suitability rather than just about appropriation. Does this name reflect the child's heritage, the community where she will grow up, and the culture in which she will be raised?
With the name Maiara, it might make a difference if the couple lived in or were from Brazil and had a connection with the Tupi people. The couple could be of predominately European heritage (like Portuguese) and still have a Tupi ancestor or a family friend that was Tupi that they had asked to honor with their child's name.
Unless the woman telling the couple is part of the Tupi people in Brazil, it seems officious for her to authoritatively make blanket statements on how the name should be used. She has every right to inform the couple that the name use could be considered appropriative, and it would be kind of her to provide some information on the name and/or culture if she wants to. If she starts going on and on about the Tupi people's perspective when she isn't Tupi and literally has no idea what they would think about this couple or the name, then she would also be in danger of being appropriative. There is no pan "Indigenous People," and they are not all part of the same community. If the woman saying not to use the name is Tupi, then the couple would be unwise and arrogant not to take her words into consideration.
With the name Maiara, it might make a difference if the couple lived in or were from Brazil and had a connection with the Tupi people. The couple could be of predominately European heritage (like Portuguese) and still have a Tupi ancestor or a family friend that was Tupi that they had asked to honor with their child's name.
Unless the woman telling the couple is part of the Tupi people in Brazil, it seems officious for her to authoritatively make blanket statements on how the name should be used. She has every right to inform the couple that the name use could be considered appropriative, and it would be kind of her to provide some information on the name and/or culture if she wants to. If she starts going on and on about the Tupi people's perspective when she isn't Tupi and literally has no idea what they would think about this couple or the name, then she would also be in danger of being appropriative. There is no pan "Indigenous People," and they are not all part of the same community. If the woman saying not to use the name is Tupi, then the couple would be unwise and arrogant not to take her words into consideration.
This message was edited 4/7/2021, 8:26 AM
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Maiara is a top 100 name in Portugal (so is Mayara) and I somehow doubt that most of the people who used it have Tupi ancestry. Still you will find this name a lot within that country and it seems to be considered completely normal there. Of course Brazil and Portugal are connected in many ways but I still don't think Tupi ancestry is common. I personally don't think you have to worry or ask permission if the name is clearly in popular use.
This message was edited 4/7/2021, 8:05 AM
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Well, if a Native American person told me it was cultural appropriation, I would listen to them and not use the name. There are many, many other beautiful names to use that wouldn't give people that reaction, so I would just let that one name go. It seems like the best thing to do.
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What would you do if one person told you it was horrible cultural appropriation and 35 told you that it is perfectly fine? Just wondering. It is definitely something to think about but there are people in every community that take offense easily and there are even German people who believe that it is bad to give your child a French name (France is our neighbor and in the German areas close to France many people speak French and there are many cultural similarities, traditions, dishes etc.) and they can have their opinion of course but that doesn't mean that the other people agree with them or that it is really a bad thing to do. Just a random example.
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What would you do if one person told you it was horrible cultural appropriation and 35 told you that it is perfectly fine?
I still wouldn't use it.
I have no Native American heritage, so I wouldn't feel like it was MY name to use. And just because a lot of people say it's okay to do something, that doesn't necessarily make it okay, in my mind.
Of course everybody is free to do what they want, but this is how *I* feel.
I still wouldn't use it.
I have no Native American heritage, so I wouldn't feel like it was MY name to use. And just because a lot of people say it's okay to do something, that doesn't necessarily make it okay, in my mind.
Of course everybody is free to do what they want, but this is how *I* feel.
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That's fine and I respect that but I personally would make a different decision especially with the name being in the top 100 in a European country in two spelling variants. Someone will always disagree with something you do and use even if most people are fine with it.
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In my opinion it's fine.
I lived abroad for several years and loving another culture and using a name from it is not a bad thing. You are naming a child, a precious human being, not a toilet. I think most people would find it nice and see it as a good thing.
I like it when people use German and French names (even when they are often mispronounced *cough* Gretchen *cough*) because it shows me that people like my culture and appreciate it. It makes me happy just as it makes me happy when people learn German or cook Spätzle.
From my experience people who say that others are "stealing their culture" often have no international experience and haven't really come into contact with many cultures. They are also often one of those "holier than thou" people.
Also, where do you draw the line? If I give my daughter a Japanese name even though I'm not Japanese is that cultural appropriation? What if I speak Japanese and lived in the country for 5 years? What if my partner is Japanese but my child looks white (I know someone with a Korean mom who looks 100% white, like his dad, with green eyes). People are way too quick to judge others and belittle them these days. When is it okay to give my daughter a Japanese name, do I need a permission?
I once did a poll on this and to test people I didn't just add names that were 100% Japanese but also some that had a long history of use and etymology in other cultures (Mika, Aya) yet some people still voted "none of these names are usable for a non-Japanese child, use names from your own culture". I couldn't take them seriously anymore after that.
And yes, I would give my daughter a Japanese name (I don't have any boys names on my list at the moment). I have a long interest in the culture, lived with Japanese friends for a few years (who, by the way, thought it was nice and unproblematic) and have been learning Japanese for quite some time. So I would use Aya, definitely, and most likely also Mei, Ayaka, Kurumi and Hitomi if those names were high enough on my list and Hitomi wouldn't remind English speakers of "hit on me".
I lived abroad for several years and loving another culture and using a name from it is not a bad thing. You are naming a child, a precious human being, not a toilet. I think most people would find it nice and see it as a good thing.
I like it when people use German and French names (even when they are often mispronounced *cough* Gretchen *cough*) because it shows me that people like my culture and appreciate it. It makes me happy just as it makes me happy when people learn German or cook Spätzle.
From my experience people who say that others are "stealing their culture" often have no international experience and haven't really come into contact with many cultures. They are also often one of those "holier than thou" people.
Also, where do you draw the line? If I give my daughter a Japanese name even though I'm not Japanese is that cultural appropriation? What if I speak Japanese and lived in the country for 5 years? What if my partner is Japanese but my child looks white (I know someone with a Korean mom who looks 100% white, like his dad, with green eyes). People are way too quick to judge others and belittle them these days. When is it okay to give my daughter a Japanese name, do I need a permission?
I once did a poll on this and to test people I didn't just add names that were 100% Japanese but also some that had a long history of use and etymology in other cultures (Mika, Aya) yet some people still voted "none of these names are usable for a non-Japanese child, use names from your own culture". I couldn't take them seriously anymore after that.
And yes, I would give my daughter a Japanese name (I don't have any boys names on my list at the moment). I have a long interest in the culture, lived with Japanese friends for a few years (who, by the way, thought it was nice and unproblematic) and have been learning Japanese for quite some time. So I would use Aya, definitely, and most likely also Mei, Ayaka, Kurumi and Hitomi if those names were high enough on my list and Hitomi wouldn't remind English speakers of "hit on me".
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Picking a name for your child is one of the most important decision you’ll ever make for you child. Any namenerd or parent in general would agree.
With names, there is such a beautiful variety of options, why limit yourself to only one culture or family names? There’s absolutely nothing wrong with family names or choosing names of your culture/ethnicity, but I’m just saying.
I would be surprised if a heard a white girl named Keisha, Imani, or Latasha. Just like I would be surprised if I heard a white boy with the name Amari, Jamal, or Marquis considering these are common names in African culture. But I wouldn’t get all of my other black friends to gang up on them.
I think the main reason why people use cultural appropriation as an excuse is because when they use it, they might get teased or bullied for their culture, however if a white person uses it, all of a sudden they’re a god. Or, at least that’s how they perceive it.
My name, Isis, is obviously an Ancient Egyptian name. As far as I’m aware I have no Egyptian ancestry in my family, but my father believes that is our roots. He studied Ancient Egypt for years, we even went to Egypt with my step-mother. As he named me after the Isis Papers, the book literally talks about white supremacy, the author chose Isis because she was the most important goddess of Ancient Egypt, Isis admired truth & justice and made truth and justice stronger than silver and gold. Is that cultural appropriation? I’ll let you be the judge.
To put it in short: You can choose whatever name you want for your child. It probably best you look more into the culture and etymology behind it. In all honesty I probably wouldn’t listen to society that much anyhow considering there are a lot of inconsistencies with political correctness to say the least.
With names, there is such a beautiful variety of options, why limit yourself to only one culture or family names? There’s absolutely nothing wrong with family names or choosing names of your culture/ethnicity, but I’m just saying.
I would be surprised if a heard a white girl named Keisha, Imani, or Latasha. Just like I would be surprised if I heard a white boy with the name Amari, Jamal, or Marquis considering these are common names in African culture. But I wouldn’t get all of my other black friends to gang up on them.
I think the main reason why people use cultural appropriation as an excuse is because when they use it, they might get teased or bullied for their culture, however if a white person uses it, all of a sudden they’re a god. Or, at least that’s how they perceive it.
My name, Isis, is obviously an Ancient Egyptian name. As far as I’m aware I have no Egyptian ancestry in my family, but my father believes that is our roots. He studied Ancient Egypt for years, we even went to Egypt with my step-mother. As he named me after the Isis Papers, the book literally talks about white supremacy, the author chose Isis because she was the most important goddess of Ancient Egypt, Isis admired truth & justice and made truth and justice stronger than silver and gold. Is that cultural appropriation? I’ll let you be the judge.
To put it in short: You can choose whatever name you want for your child. It probably best you look more into the culture and etymology behind it. In all honesty I probably wouldn’t listen to society that much anyhow considering there are a lot of inconsistencies with political correctness to say the least.
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I agree with you.
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I agree
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It's ONE HUNDRED PER CENT CULTURAL APPROPRIATION
It's one hundred percent NOT OKAY.
They're not Indigenous People and have zero connection to the name. They chose it purely because of "aesthetics". It looks "cool" to them. An Indigenous person has called them out on it. Of course, nobody can stop them really, but going through with it would be very disrespectful. And in the later years, their kid is probably going to sound like some inconsiderate jerk. Hard No on this one.
It's one hundred percent NOT OKAY.
They're not Indigenous People and have zero connection to the name. They chose it purely because of "aesthetics". It looks "cool" to them. An Indigenous person has called them out on it. Of course, nobody can stop them really, but going through with it would be very disrespectful. And in the later years, their kid is probably going to sound like some inconsiderate jerk. Hard No on this one.
This message was edited 4/7/2021, 7:06 AM
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Most people are not going to see the name Maiara on a child and immediately know it’s an indigenous name. If they ask, and a child responds, “It’s an indigenous name, but I am not indigenous, my parents just liked the name” I can hardly see people getting upset over that. Not all given names were given for a reason, and that’s perfectly fine.
You complain that white people “steal” these cultural names while doing nothing for the indigenous community. May I ask, what do you do for the indigenous community? So many people who stand by waiting to shout “cultural appropriation!” from the roof tops and condemn terrible, just awful white people from doing small things like naming their child or wearing certain clothing aren’t doing anything for the communities they claim to represent and instead are just speaking for the community when they weren’t asked to.
Did you miss the part where RoxStar told us she was indigenous? If no, then you intentionally spoke over her. Speaking over a member of the community that you claim to be standing up for...
You complain that white people “steal” these cultural names while doing nothing for the indigenous community. May I ask, what do you do for the indigenous community? So many people who stand by waiting to shout “cultural appropriation!” from the roof tops and condemn terrible, just awful white people from doing small things like naming their child or wearing certain clothing aren’t doing anything for the communities they claim to represent and instead are just speaking for the community when they weren’t asked to.
Did you miss the part where RoxStar told us she was indigenous? If no, then you intentionally spoke over her. Speaking over a member of the community that you claim to be standing up for...
This message was edited 4/8/2021, 8:31 AM
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I agree with Ani.
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full, not part
So far as I know.
So far as I know.
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My bad, thanks for commenting :)
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Really good point.
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I disagree and you don't even know if they haven't done their research on the name or only chose it because it sounds nice. You are very judgmental.
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It's good that you feel judged. Then maybe, you can have a long introspective look at yourself and why, despite having no connection to indigenous culture that have suffered at the hands of Westernisation, you feel it's ok to poach.
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Why are you changing your user name?
I can still see that it's you. You are narrow-minded so don't reprimand other people. Using a name from an indigenous culture doesn't mean you are poaching them.
I can still see that it's you. You are narrow-minded so don't reprimand other people. Using a name from an indigenous culture doesn't mean you are poaching them.
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What does that have to do with literally anything?
Are you the username police?
Are you the username police?
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She may not be, but I am ;)
It’s fine to change your username occasionally, but don’t go back and forth or try to use different names to deceive people, or you will get banned.
It’s fine to change your username occasionally, but don’t go back and forth or try to use different names to deceive people, or you will get banned.
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Your account will get deleted if you continue doing this. Stop trolling. They can also see your IP address.
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Hear me out..
I’m sorry, but is there some wrong with choosing a name for your kid because you like the look of it? That’s literally the reason why parents chose a name for their child. They might regret it, sure. But I don’t see what’s wrong with that to be honest with you, no matter what culture it is.
If an Indigenous couple thinks a name outside of their culture is cool and want to use it on their daughter, why stop them? Because it isn’t their culture?
I’m sorry, but is there some wrong with choosing a name for your kid because you like the look of it? That’s literally the reason why parents chose a name for their child. They might regret it, sure. But I don’t see what’s wrong with that to be honest with you, no matter what culture it is.
If an Indigenous couple thinks a name outside of their culture is cool and want to use it on their daughter, why stop them? Because it isn’t their culture?
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Depends on the tribe and their naming practices. Some tribes put a lot of thought and spirituality into their names, and if a white couple use the name just because they think it sounds pretty, they're ignorant of the meaning of the name itself and why it might be used. They are not really honoring the name or the culture, they're cherry-picking what they like.
Colonization makes it very different for white people to "take" things from the very cultures they annihilated/enslaved. It's like punching down, instead of up, if that makes sense.
Not saying that white people who use certain names are bad people or anything, but these are reasons why some people might feel the way they do. It's more complicated than just *liking* a name.
Colonization makes it very different for white people to "take" things from the very cultures they annihilated/enslaved. It's like punching down, instead of up, if that makes sense.
Not saying that white people who use certain names are bad people or anything, but these are reasons why some people might feel the way they do. It's more complicated than just *liking* a name.
This message was edited 4/7/2021, 8:42 AM
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Personally, I don't see the issue with using a name from another culture. I especially think it's alright if you're honoring the culture. The only thing I have a problem with is, if, say you use the name of a famous murderer or something. Like, Adolf from Adolf Hitler. If you like a name, then use it. I think it's cool to honor a culture that you love. I don't know how using that name is "stealing from other cultures". Like, I love the name Ingrid and Astrid. Both are common Scandinavian names. I don't think people have a problem with that. Also, people use Matthew and Mary, both are Hebrew names.
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I agree
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people use Matthew and Mary, both are Hebrew names.
Mary and Matthew are not Hebrew names, they're Hellenic/ Latinised variants of Hebrew names, "Miriam / Mattiyahu". Moreover, Mary and Matthew are associated with CHRISTIANITY who's is in turn associated with WESTERNISATION which is another synonym for WHITENESS.
And as far back as we cast out minds, WHITENESS/ Christianity has always been the standard.
Indigenous people have had their names taken away by colonisation & Racism, having other people's culture's foisted on them and told that their names were savage & uncivilised.
Now, today, it's cool to be affiliated with Indigenous Culture and people are profits off it claiming "appreciation" while doing NOTHING for the Indigenous Community. I call Bullsh*t.
This a clear case of White People being entitled thinking they can take whatever they want with a smile & POC/Indigenous People should be grateful for their so called "appreciation".
There are names like "Matthew & Mary" for white people. Leave Indigenous Names alone. They're not for you(Whites)
Mary and Matthew are not Hebrew names, they're Hellenic/ Latinised variants of Hebrew names, "Miriam / Mattiyahu". Moreover, Mary and Matthew are associated with CHRISTIANITY who's is in turn associated with WESTERNISATION which is another synonym for WHITENESS.
And as far back as we cast out minds, WHITENESS/ Christianity has always been the standard.
Indigenous people have had their names taken away by colonisation & Racism, having other people's culture's foisted on them and told that their names were savage & uncivilised.
Now, today, it's cool to be affiliated with Indigenous Culture and people are profits off it claiming "appreciation" while doing NOTHING for the Indigenous Community. I call Bullsh*t.
This a clear case of White People being entitled thinking they can take whatever they want with a smile & POC/Indigenous People should be grateful for their so called "appreciation".
There are names like "Matthew & Mary" for white people. Leave Indigenous Names alone. They're not for you(Whites)
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That's honestly pretty racist and shallow minded in my opinion. Who says that names have a race? So, what happens when Indigenous people die out? Who will share their culture? I think it's pretty cool to appreciate other cultures. I agree that Racism is wrong, and I do believe that we need to do something about it. Though, if we don't move forward and appreciate each other, I don't know how it will ever change. Let's stop this war and love one another. Besides, it's only a name. Why can't someone choose a name because they like the way it looks and sounds? Also, if they want to honor a culture, they should be able to! What, so do you eat, wear, think, breathe, and do everything in your culture?
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Reverse Racism?
Lol, I totally haven't heard THAT one before.
And your pseudo Intellectual arguement fell SO flat, btw.
Certain names are associated with CERTAIN Races. Do not be deliberately obtuse. When I hear Xu Rui, I imagine I'm dealing with an Asian, specifically Chinese. When I hear Adeola, I know I'm dealing with an African race.
Try again.
Lol, I totally haven't heard THAT one before.
And your pseudo Intellectual arguement fell SO flat, btw.
Certain names are associated with CERTAIN Races. Do not be deliberately obtuse. When I hear Xu Rui, I imagine I'm dealing with an Asian, specifically Chinese. When I hear Adeola, I know I'm dealing with an African race.
Try again.
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Okay? To assume someone's race by their name is very racist and shallow minded. Just because they're associated with other races doesn't mean that they can't be used or appreciated by other cultures and races.
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I agree!
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Agreed.
I think Avatar Yangchen is being a bit closed-minded here. Especially with the “white names” part. You can choose whatever name you want for your child.
I think Avatar Yangchen is being a bit closed-minded here. Especially with the “white names” part. You can choose whatever name you want for your child.
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Nothing like Non Indigenous people excusing each other for being insensitive to indigenous culture.
The jokes write themselves.
The jokes write themselves.
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Very evident with your responses
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There are many different cultures in the world. Many people are disrespecting those. White people use names out of their culture everyday. Asians, Blacks, Hispanics too. Completely unaware of the culture behind it. Does that make you angry?
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Can't speak for anyone else, but it doesn't make me *angry*, I just wish people would think about it more.
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Yes!
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I wouldn't...
Unless the name is already widely in use by a variety of cultures (because every name originated somewhere), I think it would be better NOT to use the name. Europeans, and white people in general, throughout history have pretty much felt entitled to take whatever they/we wanted. Now we want to usurp another culture's names too. I don't know if I'd say it's straight up wrong. But it feels just disrespectful enough to me that it would make me uncomfortable. And the parents could be setting their own child up for problems. I'd find another name. There are a lot of great names out there. I'd rather err on the side of caution.
Unless the name is already widely in use by a variety of cultures (because every name originated somewhere), I think it would be better NOT to use the name. Europeans, and white people in general, throughout history have pretty much felt entitled to take whatever they/we wanted. Now we want to usurp another culture's names too. I don't know if I'd say it's straight up wrong. But it feels just disrespectful enough to me that it would make me uncomfortable. And the parents could be setting their own child up for problems. I'd find another name. There are a lot of great names out there. I'd rather err on the side of caution.
This message was edited 4/7/2021, 11:48 AM
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I don't know how using one name, because you like it, amounts to stealing a whole culture. But the rightful owners of that culture have every right to their opinion. I think that if the prospective parents can find more people from that particular language group and ask them how they feel, they will get a clearer idea than if they just listen to one person about how their child will be treated, or just regarded, if they do use that name.
Before democratisation in 1990, people who supported basic human rights for all South Africans were highly likely to end up in prison. This included a white man with British parents and a sister. The parents, naturally, tried to get as much publicity as possible for him and his cause. They gave interviews to journalists, etc. In the course of this, they stated their own position - much like their son's but without actually stepping over the line - and this included saying that their daughter's name was Amandla, which means 'Power' in some local languages. (The speakers at illegal meetings would shout out "Amandla" and the crowd would respond "Awethu" which means 'To us!') In the end, the prisoner was released and sent back to England. However, on the daughter's passport application her name was given as the more usual, more likely but much less political Amanda. That is certainly an example of using a word from another language/culture for one's own purposes, and also of stretching the truth to breaking point.
Before democratisation in 1990, people who supported basic human rights for all South Africans were highly likely to end up in prison. This included a white man with British parents and a sister. The parents, naturally, tried to get as much publicity as possible for him and his cause. They gave interviews to journalists, etc. In the course of this, they stated their own position - much like their son's but without actually stepping over the line - and this included saying that their daughter's name was Amandla, which means 'Power' in some local languages. (The speakers at illegal meetings would shout out "Amandla" and the crowd would respond "Awethu" which means 'To us!') In the end, the prisoner was released and sent back to England. However, on the daughter's passport application her name was given as the more usual, more likely but much less political Amanda. That is certainly an example of using a word from another language/culture for one's own purposes, and also of stretching the truth to breaking point.
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I think both sides are potentially at fault here. The European couple because they are using a name from a culture not their own, but more because, presumably, they know nothing of that culture or language or the name; if they have some connections or knowledge of those things, I say it's less of a problem. Also, if they think they made the name up and it coincidentally turned out to be a real name in some language, well, I guess lots of names people think they've made up turn out to mean something in some other language, whether an actual name or some random word like stomachache or chair. :)
I think the Native woman is at fault for trying to convince these people not to use a certain name. Beyond pointing out the obvious-to-her, she should butt out unless asked for her opinion; that would go for anyone of any ethnicity. It's fine on a message board where most of the people supposedly asking for names for their new twin girls are actually bored 12-year-olds playing grownup.
I also think she's at fault if she truly believes that culture can be "stolen" if someone uses a name of that culture without being part of it. It's a little like how some kids feel when a new baby or new stepparent comes along: they think that that their parent's love is finite and there's only so much to go around and with New Baby or New Stepparent, there's less love around for them.
This white couple uses the name Naiara for the new baby. Maiara doesn't leave the culture it originated from. It's still as much a name in that language as it ever was, and it's realistically highly unlikely that it suddenly catches on with white people and becomes widely known and used.
At worst, I think the couple is being presumptuous and pretentious and maybe not considering the optics of it.
There is always going to be crossover and borrowing among different cultures.
I am Native/Indian myself so I think I'm qualified to speak here. :)
I think the Native woman is at fault for trying to convince these people not to use a certain name. Beyond pointing out the obvious-to-her, she should butt out unless asked for her opinion; that would go for anyone of any ethnicity. It's fine on a message board where most of the people supposedly asking for names for their new twin girls are actually bored 12-year-olds playing grownup.
I also think she's at fault if she truly believes that culture can be "stolen" if someone uses a name of that culture without being part of it. It's a little like how some kids feel when a new baby or new stepparent comes along: they think that that their parent's love is finite and there's only so much to go around and with New Baby or New Stepparent, there's less love around for them.
This white couple uses the name Naiara for the new baby. Maiara doesn't leave the culture it originated from. It's still as much a name in that language as it ever was, and it's realistically highly unlikely that it suddenly catches on with white people and becomes widely known and used.
At worst, I think the couple is being presumptuous and pretentious and maybe not considering the optics of it.
There is always going to be crossover and borrowing among different cultures.
I am Native/Indian myself so I think I'm qualified to speak here. :)
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Shit done hit the fan over here I see...
*Grabs popcorn*
On a serious note, I love how intense a thread could get over something as simple as a name.
*Grabs popcorn*
On a serious note, I love how intense a thread could get over something as simple as a name.
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I agree.
I also think that Maiara is actually quite widely used by non-Native people. It made the top 100 in Portugal and even though I am sure some people are Native people I am also sure that many are not.
I also think that Maiara is actually quite widely used by non-Native people. It made the top 100 in Portugal and even though I am sure some people are Native people I am also sure that many are not.
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I've never heard the name till today. Maybe there's some celebrity not known in the US who has the name?
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A famous musician with close to 5 million followers on instagram. Not sure how popular she is in the US, she seems to speak Portuguese.
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You're Dead Wrong. The Indigenous Woman was Right
The Native Woman is trying to protect the integrity of her culture. Indigenous people for centuries have had their culture mocked and white washed & degraded.
Suddenly, it's cool to be associated with Indigenous And people want in on that shine. Before it's appreciation, make sure that very WHITE COUPLE has lived the Indigenous experience, they've assisted the Indigenous community and spoken aside Indigenous People on the issues surrounding their community.
The Native Woman is trying to protect the integrity of her culture. Indigenous people for centuries have had their culture mocked and white washed & degraded.
Suddenly, it's cool to be associated with Indigenous And people want in on that shine. Before it's appreciation, make sure that very WHITE COUPLE has lived the Indigenous experience, they've assisted the Indigenous community and spoken aside Indigenous People on the issues surrounding their community.
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If you don’t mind me asking...
What race are you? You seem to be pretty defensive on this topic and cultural appropriation.
What race are you? You seem to be pretty defensive on this topic and cultural appropriation.
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I've never had to identify my "race" to anyone in my life because thank God I'm not plagued with White Entitlement where I live.
And BTW, "What race are you" is very offensive. Must I be part of a race to identify & understand the harm they suffer at the hands of another Culture?
Rubbish.
And BTW, "What race are you" is very offensive. Must I be part of a race to identify & understand the harm they suffer at the hands of another Culture?
Rubbish.
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I was asking because as RoxStar said a lot of white people feel the need to play the role of White Savior even when something isn’t that serious. Especially in terms of cultural appropriation.
No, I’m not saying to need to be indigenous to see what they’re going through. Nice try though.
No, I’m not saying to need to be indigenous to see what they’re going through. Nice try though.
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pick a username and stick to it ...
And you are either woefully stupid, or you think we are, if you actually believe you don't live in an area where there is white entitlement, or that you've never been asked your ethnicity.
And it absolutely does make a difference what your race/ethnicity, especially when you start trying to tell people of other races what they should think or feel.
And you are either woefully stupid, or you think we are, if you actually believe you don't live in an area where there is white entitlement, or that you've never been asked your ethnicity.
And it absolutely does make a difference what your race/ethnicity, especially when you start trying to tell people of other races what they should think or feel.
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You are aware of the fact that those aren't the same people, right? Your attitude is so narrow-minded. You cannot blame people who were born decades later for what other people did. It's like blaming a newborn German baby for the second World War.
And what is "THE indigenous experience"? There are many different indigenous people with completely different languages and cultures.
And what is "THE indigenous experience"? There are many different indigenous people with completely different languages and cultures.
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So, I you didn't comprehend any of what I just said?
And I wasn't blaming anyone, I was pointing very harmful practices that are still being felt today. While also explaining in very great detail what taking a name from customs of which you know nothing of its complexities is more than just APPROPRIATION, it's BLOODY DISRESPECTFUL.
And I wasn't blaming anyone, I was pointing very harmful practices that are still being felt today. While also explaining in very great detail what taking a name from customs of which you know nothing of its complexities is more than just APPROPRIATION, it's BLOODY DISRESPECTFUL.
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we understood you just fine ...
And you're still completely out of line.
And you're still completely out of line.
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You are disrespectful.
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excuse me ...
I don't need you to "educate" me. I know all of that.
Are you assuming that all indigenous people think the same exact way about this? Sure looks like it. Are you assuming we all SHOULD hold the exact same view? Looks like that too.
Are you assuming I, as an indigenous person, don't know any better and need your enlightenment? Looks that way.
Take a good hard look in the mirror before you start spouting off and trying to act like the Great White Savior. I swear, you are like a parody of that.
I don't need you to "educate" me. I know all of that.
Are you assuming that all indigenous people think the same exact way about this? Sure looks like it. Are you assuming we all SHOULD hold the exact same view? Looks like that too.
Are you assuming I, as an indigenous person, don't know any better and need your enlightenment? Looks that way.
Take a good hard look in the mirror before you start spouting off and trying to act like the Great White Savior. I swear, you are like a parody of that.
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Wrong on both counts. And I'm certainly not WHITE, thank goodness
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Wow, you really are tone deaf.
FYI, saying "I'm certainly not WHITE, thank goodness" is really offensive.
FYI, saying "I'm certainly not WHITE, thank goodness" is really offensive.
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Why “thank goodness”?
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thank goodness ...
She was so clever to be able to arrange not to be white?
She's acting "white" in the very worst sense of that odious expression.
She was so clever to be able to arrange not to be white?
She's acting "white" in the very worst sense of that odious expression.
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You’re so ignorant to culture it’s astonishing to me.
Grow up. Absolutely nothing wrong with being white, and there’s nothing wrong with being proud of your culture.
I hope one day you snap out of your close-mindedness and hero complex and travel the world while learning more about different peoples cultures. Gate keeping cultures definitely isn’t smart either.
Grow up. Absolutely nothing wrong with being white, and there’s nothing wrong with being proud of your culture.
I hope one day you snap out of your close-mindedness and hero complex and travel the world while learning more about different peoples cultures. Gate keeping cultures definitely isn’t smart either.
This message was edited 4/7/2021, 8:40 AM
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whatever ...
You're acting like a caricature of white savior complex. And no matter what color you ar, you are off base and out of line to try and tell me my people's history/struggle and how I should feel.
You're acting like a caricature of white savior complex. And no matter what color you ar, you are off base and out of line to try and tell me my people's history/struggle and how I should feel.
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