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HelpRe: Japanese names on non-japanese kids?
in reply to a message by shijin
Yeah - exactly, on your second para.
It would seem shallow or "tacky" not because of the race difference, but because of the assumption (by white Americans) that white American parents wouldn't know the cultural connotations of a Japanese name in Japanese culture. And it's not even a racist assumption. I guess what would be racism would be the assumption that it is shallower to use a French name without knowing its cultural connotations in France, than a Japanese name without knowing its connotations in Japan...
But more likely it's just cynicism based on the idea that Americans are racist, or at least feel alienated from Japanese culture. That is, the idea that they'd name from French out of admiration and desire to identify themselves with Frenchness in general, whatever the cultural meanings there -- while they'd name from Japanese out of mere affinity for a particular Japanese cultural product, even though they are alienated from the very fact that there is an entire Japanese cultural context.
Cynical, yeah, but I think it's a common assumption by the mere fact that the question gets asked. Maybe it's not so much cynicism about each other, as it is self-recognition of actual shallowness, and fear that we don't really "get" Japanese culture? Just some thoughts here. Not arguing with you. I agree with you about the double standard, I just think it's interesting.
Interesting comment you have about a Japanese person taking such an approach to a name from your own heritage. So image wouldn't matter? I mean, just because the parents understand the name's meaning in its "native" culture, doesn't mean it won't seem odd (shallow or imitative) on the kid, to people who are casually acquainted.
I'm trying to figure out if I assume, say, a blond American kid with a Japanese name would make a significantly different first impression from a Japanese looking kid with a Dutch name. There'd be no reason to assume that the Japanese parents did their homework, but the white American kid's didn't... not that I think people wouldn't assume that. :-P I mean, of course it'd depend on where you were -- but the question I have is, do you think the predicted knee-jerk-reaction "public image" (shallow, imitative, whatever) that is created, in whatever the child's context actually is, matters; or does it not matter as long as the family and namebearer know the complex native meaning?
My personal conclusion is that it doesn't matter what the public image is, nor does it matter if the family knows jack about the name's context. However, I'd hold myself to a standard of knowledge before using names from Japanese, because I feel more ignorant of Japanese culture than I do of, say, French. And I'd hesitate anyway because of the fear of it appearing shallow, even if it wasn't. And ultimately I'd decide to do it because like you, I can't picture a Japanese person seeing it as shallow (although Americans might): more likely, they'd assume I'd bothered to learn the Japanese connotations. Just like I'd assume that they'd done so before naming their kid an English name.
Sorry for rambling... you got me thinking :-P I guess I came to the same conclusion you did - that it only would matter what Japanese people thought, so really you'd only need to understand what it meant for them, to heck with what Americans might see of themselves in it. Is that right?
- chazda
It would seem shallow or "tacky" not because of the race difference, but because of the assumption (by white Americans) that white American parents wouldn't know the cultural connotations of a Japanese name in Japanese culture. And it's not even a racist assumption. I guess what would be racism would be the assumption that it is shallower to use a French name without knowing its cultural connotations in France, than a Japanese name without knowing its connotations in Japan...
But more likely it's just cynicism based on the idea that Americans are racist, or at least feel alienated from Japanese culture. That is, the idea that they'd name from French out of admiration and desire to identify themselves with Frenchness in general, whatever the cultural meanings there -- while they'd name from Japanese out of mere affinity for a particular Japanese cultural product, even though they are alienated from the very fact that there is an entire Japanese cultural context.
Cynical, yeah, but I think it's a common assumption by the mere fact that the question gets asked. Maybe it's not so much cynicism about each other, as it is self-recognition of actual shallowness, and fear that we don't really "get" Japanese culture? Just some thoughts here. Not arguing with you. I agree with you about the double standard, I just think it's interesting.
Interesting comment you have about a Japanese person taking such an approach to a name from your own heritage. So image wouldn't matter? I mean, just because the parents understand the name's meaning in its "native" culture, doesn't mean it won't seem odd (shallow or imitative) on the kid, to people who are casually acquainted.
I'm trying to figure out if I assume, say, a blond American kid with a Japanese name would make a significantly different first impression from a Japanese looking kid with a Dutch name. There'd be no reason to assume that the Japanese parents did their homework, but the white American kid's didn't... not that I think people wouldn't assume that. :-P I mean, of course it'd depend on where you were -- but the question I have is, do you think the predicted knee-jerk-reaction "public image" (shallow, imitative, whatever) that is created, in whatever the child's context actually is, matters; or does it not matter as long as the family and namebearer know the complex native meaning?
My personal conclusion is that it doesn't matter what the public image is, nor does it matter if the family knows jack about the name's context. However, I'd hold myself to a standard of knowledge before using names from Japanese, because I feel more ignorant of Japanese culture than I do of, say, French. And I'd hesitate anyway because of the fear of it appearing shallow, even if it wasn't. And ultimately I'd decide to do it because like you, I can't picture a Japanese person seeing it as shallow (although Americans might): more likely, they'd assume I'd bothered to learn the Japanese connotations. Just like I'd assume that they'd done so before naming their kid an English name.
Sorry for rambling... you got me thinking :-P I guess I came to the same conclusion you did - that it only would matter what Japanese people thought, so really you'd only need to understand what it meant for them, to heck with what Americans might see of themselves in it. Is that right?
- chazda
This message was edited 1/30/2006, 7:25 PM
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