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HelpRe: Maple
in reply to a message by Lily
Mmmmm... But Faith, Autumn and Grace are OFFICIALLY real names. Maple is not officially a real given name in the way they are any more than Spatula or Refrigerator are real names. Once saide, Kaede would be easy for westerners to pronounce... No harder than Phoebe which has become pretty standard.
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Ok... It seems a little on the fringe side though... and how many people were required to be named that to get into the top 1000 back in 1901? Kaede has prob'ly become more standard in Japan in the past few decades... and I don't know if ANY Jpns. names have ever made the top 1000 in the States unless there are western names that match them in spelling and/or sound (like Ken, Mari, Marika, Marina, Erika, etc.). Wonder how many people shook their heads back then when Maple was used... It may be possible that with the large name base and larger population from which to make current top 1000 lists, there would be names that more people use now that wouldn't make it. Not sure what the numbers would be for that though. Whatever the case, I wouldn't want to walk around with that as a personal fn... though it would be fine as a surname.
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I'd still rather explain it than walk around as Maple. People in mono-cultural settings could benefit from some expansion of awareness of other cultures anyway. Just because people grow up in a bubble with limited awareness of the world beyond them doesn't mean they have to stay in the unaware bubble... and my point was that those around the person w/ the name would get used to it quickly and it would be really easy to say, so it wouldn't be a problem... not like if I used a name with the Ry consonant cluster.
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Well, that's up to you... Might depend what part of the country you're in too... and if you have anyone around you who reads manga... If you live in more multi-cultural areas or near the manga and anime fans, then it might not phase people so much. However, when you're with mono-lingual, mono-cultural folk, I suppose the other would be possible... I'd rather explain something I classed as a real name from another culture than something that just seemed like a random word though.
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In my area, we have plenty of people who read manga. But they're all about 13 years old. I used to read manga. Still wouldn't assume Kaede "rhymes with Friday", if I met an American child with the name.
Like Amphelise said, Maple has been used enough in the US to make charts a few times. Kaede hasn't.
Plus, Maple aligns with a few trends in the US (similar feel to Hazel, Mabel, which are coming back). Kaede doesn't.
Honestly I don't even see how Maple and Kaede are comparable, except that they mean the same thing. Eve and Psyche both originate from their languages word for "to breathe". That doesn't mean they're automatically alternates for each other.
Like Amphelise said, Maple has been used enough in the US to make charts a few times. Kaede hasn't.
Plus, Maple aligns with a few trends in the US (similar feel to Hazel, Mabel, which are coming back). Kaede doesn't.
Honestly I don't even see how Maple and Kaede are comparable, except that they mean the same thing. Eve and Psyche both originate from their languages word for "to breathe". That doesn't mean they're automatically alternates for each other.
This message was edited 2/17/2012, 1:05 PM
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Well, if the purpose of choosing the name was its meaning and that MEANING's association with the person's heritage, then maple and Kaede have EVERYTHING to do with each other. I'd never name a child Cherry Blossom, but Sakura could be a consideration. I wouldn't name a child Spring or Fountain, but Izumi or Aviva would be perfectly acceptable... The meaning is the same. They just sound different... and their tendencies to be used as actual names are different.
Plus, Apple has been used as a name, but it still doesn't feel very namelike and even if 100 people suddenly used it the same year, it would still seem weird as a name.
Also, unless you're a teacher or someone in some other office READING a child's name, you are likely to HEAR the name before you ever see it on paper... thus making it less of an issue how it's spelled. Multi-cultural and ethnic names are becoming more and more of a reality... thus, expanding the pool of choices from which names are taken in the west... and not all of them will make the current top 1000 even if there are more of a particular name than there may have been of some names on the list 100 yrs. ago. Thus, it's not the best measuring tool. I'd think even among the population of Japanese and mixed couples having babies outside of Japan, the likelihood of a couple naming their baby Kaede would prob'ly be higher in Canada than in the States for obvious reasons (ie. meaning of the name and its relation to the family and context).
Plus, Apple has been used as a name, but it still doesn't feel very namelike and even if 100 people suddenly used it the same year, it would still seem weird as a name.
Also, unless you're a teacher or someone in some other office READING a child's name, you are likely to HEAR the name before you ever see it on paper... thus making it less of an issue how it's spelled. Multi-cultural and ethnic names are becoming more and more of a reality... thus, expanding the pool of choices from which names are taken in the west... and not all of them will make the current top 1000 even if there are more of a particular name than there may have been of some names on the list 100 yrs. ago. Thus, it's not the best measuring tool. I'd think even among the population of Japanese and mixed couples having babies outside of Japan, the likelihood of a couple naming their baby Kaede would prob'ly be higher in Canada than in the States for obvious reasons (ie. meaning of the name and its relation to the family and context).
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Z's comment "I wonder if Amanda's was trying to honour her Canadaian roots with the name Maple." was speculation. Thus "I wonder." That might have not been the reason at all. Totally crazy thought, but maybe one of them just said "Hey what do you think of Maple as a name?" and the other one said "Yeah I like that."
Glamour.com reports "No reason behind the baby's name selection, but Maple, which is very autumnal feeling, definitely fits with the list of celebrities who have given their kids names inspired by trees..."
(oh look another trend that Maple fits)
Idk. I'm done with this conversation. Honestly I think if two American celebrities with no Japanese connection (because that is what I've been talking about this whole time) went and named their baby Kaede, it would show up on the "Strangest baby names of the year" list on Nameberry or something. Even if naming is becoming more multicultural.
Glamour.com reports "No reason behind the baby's name selection, but Maple, which is very autumnal feeling, definitely fits with the list of celebrities who have given their kids names inspired by trees..."
(oh look another trend that Maple fits)
Idk. I'm done with this conversation. Honestly I think if two American celebrities with no Japanese connection (because that is what I've been talking about this whole time) went and named their baby Kaede, it would show up on the "Strangest baby names of the year" list on Nameberry or something. Even if naming is becoming more multicultural.
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I live in a huge city and I'd say most people here wouldn't know how to pronounce it. I know I wouldn't at first and I actually grew up reading manga. I mean sure people who know her will get used to it, but she'll have to explain it over and over for strangers.
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Still... I think it would be easier to explain a "foreign" name than a name that seemed like a random word name.
Also, what country is this huge city in? It would vary from place to place how widely diverse the population is... I'm thinking in terms of places like Vancouver, Seattle, LA, etc. along the Pacific Rim with significant East Asian populations.
Also, what country is this huge city in? It would vary from place to place how widely diverse the population is... I'm thinking in terms of places like Vancouver, Seattle, LA, etc. along the Pacific Rim with significant East Asian populations.
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"I think it would be easier to explain a "foreign" name than a name that seemed like a random word name."
I disagree completely. Random word names have a long and vibrant history in English naming culture. Non-European names don't.
I disagree completely. Random word names have a long and vibrant history in English naming culture. Non-European names don't.
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In the Greater Vancouver area, while you might encounter the odd random word name, THESE DAYS, you're more likely to encounter an Asian name because the population has a high percentage of people of Asian origins and even among those not of Asian descent, there are a number of people who've at least lived in Asia or grown up with friends of Asian descent. There was a man on the radio one day saying that when he was a kid, there were a HUNDRED or so languages represented by the kids in the elementary school he'd gone to... and I can pretty much guarantee you that in that part of the country, some of those would be Asian. My blond haired, blue-eyed cousin stuck out like a sore thumb in public school in her area because a large percentage of her classmates were East Indian. Punjabi names are seen as "normal" in BC because they're actually quite common... and that's only one of many languages influencing naming there. Random word names, depending on what they are, would be more likely to make people think your parents were hippies... which you'd be more likely to find on the islands or in the Kootenays. Thus, "foreign name" would be super-easy to explain in the Greater Vancouver area. Random word names would have a greater chance of having people say "The parents named their kid WHAT?!" ... depending on what the word names were of course... 20 years ago, even Journey and Destiny were fringe and now they seem a bit more normal... though I'm not sure how common around Van. I met a white woman in the Van area who had named her daughter Midori even though their fam wasn't Jpns. Didn't phase me much.
Europe on the other hand may be different (and even the East Coast and Mid-West may be different) though because of lower populations of East Asians.
Europe on the other hand may be different (and even the East Coast and Mid-West may be different) though because of lower populations of East Asians.
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I've lived in hugely ethnically diverse areas most of my life too, but I would still look askance at an Asian, Arabic or African name on a white British baby. I would see, for example, Khadija or Tabassum as really weird on a white British girl, but while Maple would also be odd, I'd recognise it as part of an established naming tradition. Names from outside the existing naming tradition are more jarring than rare ones from within it.
This message was edited 2/18/2012, 11:04 AM
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Maybe people are just more stuck on ethnically dividing names where you're from than they are in my circles... People make their choices... I went to school with a Katija when I was in Ont. as a little kid and I have no idea if she had any Arabic roots whatsoever. That was just her name... I was prob'ly an adult or close to it before I knew it even had those roots. When kids grow up with someone with a certain name, they're often more accepting of it than if they don't hear it until they're older. I know people with a blond-haired blue-eyed Aiko. She was born in Japan to American parents and now lives in Canada. I haven't heard of her having any problems with it... and she's not even at the west coast. She's in mid-elementary school now. My friend Sundeia is white and from NZ and she has to tell people how to say or spell her name a fair bit, but once they get it, it's no problem even though her name is Sanskrit... and I know 2 white gals named Chandra as well that I went to school with in Canada. You can segregate names by ethnicity if you so choose, but I'm not about to... esp. when a meaning I want works better namewise in another language.
This message was edited 2/18/2012, 4:54 PM
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my two cents:
If someone is named it, it's a real name.
If you want to say that something isn't traditionally used as a given name, I can agree on that.
If someone is named it, it's a real name.
If you want to say that something isn't traditionally used as a given name, I can agree on that.
This message was edited 2/16/2012, 11:36 PM
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Fine... But to me, it would still be in the category of naming a child Lasagne or Filet-O-Fish. It COULD be done and may be a real name for THAT CHILD, but...
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