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HelpRe: Could you please not use this term?
in reply to a message by Mrs Claire
I can not think of a more classist and prejudicial term than "trailer trash". I think it is very rude of you to post the names of this family under that title, especially when you give no indication as to what on earth caused you to give them that label. Can't you use a less insulting and more neutral term like "working class"?
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Replies
Oh man...
Ok... I know the term "trailer trash" is offensive and all, but seriously people. Call me inconsiderate, but... it's just a word. Mrs Claire didn't mean anything by it. Again, I understand the negative connotations that the term has, but I don't really feel that this nit-picking is necessary. Mrs Claire, I'm so sorry this had to happen to you.
Ok... I know the term "trailer trash" is offensive and all, but seriously people. Call me inconsiderate, but... it's just a word. Mrs Claire didn't mean anything by it. Again, I understand the negative connotations that the term has, but I don't really feel that this nit-picking is necessary. Mrs Claire, I'm so sorry this had to happen to you.
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I didn't know where to put this...(m)
...under all of these great posts on what terms are best but I find that chav and ghetto are terms that people often use as well but people don't tend to get in as much of an uproar over them. I understand where you are coming from with "trailer trash," however, not all people that live in trailers are trashy just how not all people that live in ghettos are classless. I think maybe you could just say a "trashy" family or a "unsophisticated" family or something of the like.
Personally, I call something what it is (trashy or unsophisticated) but other people like politically correct terminology, of which there really is none for this specific situation.
...under all of these great posts on what terms are best but I find that chav and ghetto are terms that people often use as well but people don't tend to get in as much of an uproar over them. I understand where you are coming from with "trailer trash," however, not all people that live in trailers are trashy just how not all people that live in ghettos are classless. I think maybe you could just say a "trashy" family or a "unsophisticated" family or something of the like.
Personally, I call something what it is (trashy or unsophisticated) but other people like politically correct terminology, of which there really is none for this specific situation.
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Ok, teacher. Sorry for posting in my third language. May I know what I should say? Obviously I can't say working class for a Jerry Springer type family. THAT would be very horrible and "classist". There are very fine working class families, thank you. I would probably use working class if I was someone classist, but afraid to show it. Sometimes we see our own defects on other people...
This message was edited 1/16/2008, 10:54 AM
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Considering that Dr. Kent is a pyschology professor who spealizies in names
I think he has a point.
You have a history of classist posts and calling people trashy based on the way they look, their income, names, etc. Stating that it's your third language is merely a way to get you out of it.
I'm not blameless myself, but I do think you need to understand he has a point. I don't mind trailer-trash myself because it relates to a certain subculture in American society.
It's a quandary, I think.
I think he has a point.
You have a history of classist posts and calling people trashy based on the way they look, their income, names, etc. Stating that it's your third language is merely a way to get you out of it.
I'm not blameless myself, but I do think you need to understand he has a point. I don't mind trailer-trash myself because it relates to a certain subculture in American society.
It's a quandary, I think.
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Sorry, no, I don't understand why he wants me to say "working class" as a bad thing. In my country, THAT would be disgusting.
There are very rich trashy people, and very poor classy people. Trashy is not necessarily trailer trashy.
But TRAILER trash cannot be rich.
I am still waiting, what's the word for the people on the Jerry Springer show? My teacher said in America they're called "trailer trash", or "rednecks" when they are peasants. These ones live in a city, so no "redneck".
There are very rich trashy people, and very poor classy people. Trashy is not necessarily trailer trashy.
But TRAILER trash cannot be rich.
I am still waiting, what's the word for the people on the Jerry Springer show? My teacher said in America they're called "trailer trash", or "rednecks" when they are peasants. These ones live in a city, so no "redneck".
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I agree
For me using "working class" and "trailer trash" for the same group of people is not okay. It is something very different to me.
I've been using the word anti-social in my other post, maybe that's considered less offensive? Maybe "working class anti-socials" if you really need to make clear that they aren't rich?
For me using "working class" and "trailer trash" for the same group of people is not okay. It is something very different to me.
I've been using the word anti-social in my other post, maybe that's considered less offensive? Maybe "working class anti-socials" if you really need to make clear that they aren't rich?
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Yes, I agree as well. Working class and trailer trash is not the same thing. Working class people are not the ones who give their children weird and "trashy" names, they normally give their children very common, ordinary names like Emma and William (at least in Sweden). Trailer trash (they don't really exist in Sweden but there is a social group that can be compared to the American trailer trash) are they ones who don't work, don't educate themselves etc and live of the welfare system.
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Are all anti social people trashy? Are all trashy people anti social? I don't know...
Isn't anti-social more a mental problem?
Because I don't want to be told that I attack disabled people or something... some people are so into politically correct and giving lessons... telling me the right word would have been great, but who needs moral lessons from a total internet stranger...
Isn't anti-social more a mental problem?
Because I don't want to be told that I attack disabled people or something... some people are so into politically correct and giving lessons... telling me the right word would have been great, but who needs moral lessons from a total internet stranger...
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I didn't want to get into this, but
It seems to me that you have the wrong definition of both trashy and anti-social. I am inclined to not be offended by a "total internet stranger" too, but I sort of am by you equating trashy and antisocial. I am antisocial, but I am most certainly not trashy, which would be a huge insult for anyone to be called. Those two words are in no way related.
It seems to me that you have the wrong definition of both trashy and anti-social. I am inclined to not be offended by a "total internet stranger" too, but I sort of am by you equating trashy and antisocial. I am antisocial, but I am most certainly not trashy, which would be a huge insult for anyone to be called. Those two words are in no way related.
This message was edited 1/16/2008, 2:50 PM
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I think we might have a language problem here
Because in Dutch those things are definately related. Our word for trashy people is 'aso' (which comes from a-social)
maybe my other reply makes it a bit clearer what I mean:
http://www.behindthename.com/bb/view.php?id=3123671&board=baby
Because in Dutch those things are definately related. Our word for trashy people is 'aso' (which comes from a-social)
maybe my other reply makes it a bit clearer what I mean:
http://www.behindthename.com/bb/view.php?id=3123671&board=baby
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I agree with this. I think they have a different connotation of anti-social, but to be "trashy" in America is completely unrelated to being anti-social. I agree that there probably isn't a suitable translation for trailer-trash becauseit is a very specific subculture to Americans with very specific connotations.
Likewise, antisocial sort of just means "shy" to many Americans.
Perhaps we should refer to them as "Possible Jerry Springer guests" ;P
Likewise, antisocial sort of just means "shy" to many Americans.
Perhaps we should refer to them as "Possible Jerry Springer guests" ;P
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Honestly
Trailer-trash brings to mind a certain subculture of people, regardless of their financial status. So I don't know what the correct term to use is.
*shrugs* Maybe we should just go with what Mirfak said.
Trailer-trash brings to mind a certain subculture of people, regardless of their financial status. So I don't know what the correct term to use is.
*shrugs* Maybe we should just go with what Mirfak said.
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I would expect a good bashing if I said trailer trash = proletarian, personnally...
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yes -
and that is, I think, the subtlety that is being lost in translation here: the term "trailer trash" can be taken to specifically denigrate trailer dwellers (code for poor). It can whether the people being described dwell in trailers, or don't, because it suggests - even if YOU don't suggest, the term can be taken to suggest - that all trailer dwellers (code for poor) are alike in their vulgarity and comparability to rubbish.
So what you need to know before saying trailer trash is, it *is* classist in the US -- not in the direct way that denigrating, say, "filthy proles" would be, but in an indirect way. We all know exactly what you mean by trailer trash, so it's a useful idiom, but it sounds judgmental.
I think just stating whatever fact leads you to conclude they're trailer trash - "This family appeared on a vulgar show like Jerry Springer's" - should communicate the right sort of information, without appearing to express scorn for an entire class of people.
and that is, I think, the subtlety that is being lost in translation here: the term "trailer trash" can be taken to specifically denigrate trailer dwellers (code for poor). It can whether the people being described dwell in trailers, or don't, because it suggests - even if YOU don't suggest, the term can be taken to suggest - that all trailer dwellers (code for poor) are alike in their vulgarity and comparability to rubbish.
So what you need to know before saying trailer trash is, it *is* classist in the US -- not in the direct way that denigrating, say, "filthy proles" would be, but in an indirect way. We all know exactly what you mean by trailer trash, so it's a useful idiom, but it sounds judgmental.
I think just stating whatever fact leads you to conclude they're trailer trash - "This family appeared on a vulgar show like Jerry Springer's" - should communicate the right sort of information, without appearing to express scorn for an entire class of people.
This message was edited 1/16/2008, 1:02 PM
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Yup
Nowhere near the same thing to me.
To the other question: not all anti-socials are trashy, but all trailer trash are anti-socials (I don't think trash applies to anyone who isn't anti-social). I don't see anti-social as a mental problem, but more as a 'poor upbringing' problem. I know there are some mental problems that cause awkward social behaviour, but that isn't what I call anti-social. Anti-social is more not at all caring about others, and not, caring but not being able to have the 'correct behaviour'. (I hope it's a bit clear what I mean)
Nowhere near the same thing to me.
To the other question: not all anti-socials are trashy, but all trailer trash are anti-socials (I don't think trash applies to anyone who isn't anti-social). I don't see anti-social as a mental problem, but more as a 'poor upbringing' problem. I know there are some mental problems that cause awkward social behaviour, but that isn't what I call anti-social. Anti-social is more not at all caring about others, and not, caring but not being able to have the 'correct behaviour'. (I hope it's a bit clear what I mean)
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I think I see. It's hard to get little differences in foreign languages... thanks!
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a more neutral term (two cents)
I'm partial to "proletarian." Or even "plebeian," but those might make the OP sound like a snob.
[/irony] ;-P
I think a language change isn't going to change any attitudes. I'm inclined to allow posters who use the term "trailer trash" enough rope to hang themselves. The term is so loaded, that substituting "working class" bleeds out some of the information in the name opinions. Just commenting that it's judgmental, is probably enough to counteract its contagion. And someone nearly always does.
I'm partial to "proletarian." Or even "plebeian," but those might make the OP sound like a snob.
[/irony] ;-P
I think a language change isn't going to change any attitudes. I'm inclined to allow posters who use the term "trailer trash" enough rope to hang themselves. The term is so loaded, that substituting "working class" bleeds out some of the information in the name opinions. Just commenting that it's judgmental, is probably enough to counteract its contagion. And someone nearly always does.
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Maybe "plebeian" might work, but isn't the proletariat supposed to be the salt of the earth? I'd associate "proletarian" to "working class", without the "trashy" connotations.
The problem with Mrs Claire's definition for me is that "trailer trash" refers to a specifically American subculture, so I don't know if it's the most appropriate term to definine a European subculture/social groups.
The problem with Mrs Claire's definition for me is that "trailer trash" refers to a specifically American subculture, so I don't know if it's the most appropriate term to definine a European subculture/social groups.
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I agree about not using the term "trailer trash", but I see it as very different from "working class", so is there maybe a better substitute than that? ("working class" for me doesn't indicate anti-social and "trailer trash" does, and "working class" doesn't have to be negative as well)
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And what evidence does Mrs Claire have that this family is "anti-social"? That's a pretty heavy judgment to make if you don't know all the circumstances of the family. And you certainly don't get that from one news report or appearance on a TV talk show. Plus any such label seems to be unfair to the children to me. They are not responsible for the behavior of their parents and don't deserve to be called "anti-social" no matter what their parents have done.
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Well there are names that are typically given in families that behave more anti-social than most families. We have those in Dutch as well, some names just have negative connotations because they are connected to those type of families. I find it important and interesting to know which names are connected to anti-social people. Especially in France, because I have no idea what those names are there. For me it is informative that she used the term; it gives me a clear idea of what those names are viewed as.
The way I see it is that evidence that this family is anti-social isn't necessary, because it's the names that have that image attachted to it. I know at least that because a boy is named Patrick, and that name may be typically given by anti-social people, it doesn't mean that this particular boy is in fact anti-social.
In short: I agree that "trailer trash" is a rather unfortunate word to use for people, and I'd prefer using something else, but I would like to know if the image of that type of people is connected to the name.
edit: I also misunderstood the original post, I thought she was talking about the names being trashy, not necessarily the people...
The way I see it is that evidence that this family is anti-social isn't necessary, because it's the names that have that image attachted to it. I know at least that because a boy is named Patrick, and that name may be typically given by anti-social people, it doesn't mean that this particular boy is in fact anti-social.
In short: I agree that "trailer trash" is a rather unfortunate word to use for people, and I'd prefer using something else, but I would like to know if the image of that type of people is connected to the name.
edit: I also misunderstood the original post, I thought she was talking about the names being trashy, not necessarily the people...
This message was edited 1/16/2008, 10:48 AM
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