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Help[Facts] LOL! Anagram of "Theological Debater"
in reply to a message by Pavlos
"Theodoric Bagatelle" ("bagatelle" being defined as "an unimportant thing of little value.")
-- Nanaea
-- Nanaea
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Replies
I beg to differ, mon ami. Historical sources would indicate that Theodoric was probably aware of the fortunate similarity of his name to the Greek for "gift from God", and may have capitalized on it in a leadership sense. So your comment is certainly a valid contribution to the name's etymology.
However, I believe the original derivation of his name is not Greek but Gothic: Thiudareikhs, "Ruler of the People". I doubt if there were many Greek speakers on the island of Gotland, the Baltic Swedish area from whence these hosers migrated south quite early in the A.D.'s.
And lest our fellow BtNers have heard it wrong since grammar school (as I did), it's thee-ODD-o-ric, not thee-o-DOR-ic.
- Wizzy
However, I believe the original derivation of his name is not Greek but Gothic: Thiudareikhs, "Ruler of the People". I doubt if there were many Greek speakers on the island of Gotland, the Baltic Swedish area from whence these hosers migrated south quite early in the A.D.'s.
And lest our fellow BtNers have heard it wrong since grammar school (as I did), it's thee-ODD-o-ric, not thee-o-DOR-ic.
- Wizzy
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*Pas du tout, mon vieux* Our friendly hoser Thiudareikhs/Dietrich did attend a work/study program in Eastern Rome during his youth, where he apparendly did decide to capitalize on the similarity of his name to "gift from God". AdHellenizing one's name was quite *en vogue* at the time. Examples include Israelite historian Joseph ben Mattathias who adopted Flavios Iosipos (or Flavius Josephus) as his *nom de plume*
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A final word on Theodoric
The name Theodrichos (pronounced theoDORichos) is cited in *Lexicon of Greek Personal Names* (an Oxford University project, http://www.lgpn.ox.ac.uk/names2.html) as a bona fide central Greek name.
The above compilation excludes Byzantine-era names, so it appears that the Theodoric/Theodorichos was in fact not a name coined by our Gothic friend.
The name Theodrichos (pronounced theoDORichos) is cited in *Lexicon of Greek Personal Names* (an Oxford University project, http://www.lgpn.ox.ac.uk/names2.html) as a bona fide central Greek name.
The above compilation excludes Byzantine-era names, so it appears that the Theodoric/Theodorichos was in fact not a name coined by our Gothic friend.
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That website describes its scope as excluding LATER Byzantine names, not ALL names from the Byzantine era. It also says it includes names up to the 6th century and "non-Greek names recorded in Greek".
Keeping this in mind, I think that it is possible that the single Theodorichos from central Greece could have had a Hellenized Gothic name. In fact, this person could be THE Theodoric himself!
Keeping this in mind, I think that it is possible that the single Theodorichos from central Greece could have had a Hellenized Gothic name. In fact, this person could be THE Theodoric himself!
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Are you suggesting that the Gothic chief Theodoric had a Greek name or are you suggesting that there was a separate name Theodorikon? I think the latter would be much more likely. The Roman form of Theodorikon could have influenced the spelling of Theodoric , or perhaps the Greek name directly influenced the Germanic name, since the Ostrogoths settled somewhere just to the north of Greece before they moved towards Italy, if I recall correctly.
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I agree the latter is far more plausible :)
According to one source (http://www.btinternet.com/~mark.furnival/theodor.htm) "the boy was christened Dietrich , a common name amongst the Germans of that era. In Late Latin, the name translated as Theodoricus and the boy grew up to become the man known to history as Theodoric the Great."
I am not too sure about the relevance of the "late-latin" part, as Greek was the *lingua franca* of the Easter Roman ("Byzantine") empire.
Spot-on, Mike !
According to one source (http://www.btinternet.com/~mark.furnival/theodor.htm) "the boy was christened Dietrich , a common name amongst the Germans of that era. In Late Latin, the name translated as Theodoricus and the boy grew up to become the man known to history as Theodoric the Great."
I am not too sure about the relevance of the "late-latin" part, as Greek was the *lingua franca* of the Easter Roman ("Byzantine") empire.
Spot-on, Mike !
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Thank you! I hadn't even thought about the Theodoric etymology. :)
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