[Opinions] Re: Under-representation of African names
in reply to a message by 123
That sounds as if you exclusively rely on this website for learning about given names that originate from the cultures that are native to the African continent. Have you tried branching out? For example: how about paying a visit to the nearest university library in order to see if they have a scholarly book about (for example) Zulu given names? You sound a bit entitled, in the sense that you seem to expect this website to do the research for you at your "encouragement". How about doing some of your own research? You are a self-professed writer, do you not enjoy devouring books about topics that are important or otherwise of interest to you?
Have you heard of the term region? East Africa is a region, as is North Africa, South Africa and West Africa. It makes sense to list the countries and cultures according to region, especially if you look at how enormously vast the African continent is. I imagine that that makes it easier for the webmaster to create a sense of order and keep a good overview of the many cultures and their names. Not to mention that it also makes it a lot easier for the average person to get a general sense of where on the African continent the cultures in question live. In other words: this is more about accessibility and being practical. It has nothing to do with viewing and treating Africa as if it is a country. Using regions does not equal "country".
The same approach is taken with the cultures from other continents, e.g. English and French are listed under "European" and Chinese and Thai under "Asian". But I am not hearing you about how that is treating Europe and Asia as countries instead of continents. Why are you singling out exclusively the cultures from the African continent?
First off, is saying "Africa and its culture and names" not dangerously close to viewing Africa as a country instead of a continent? Perhaps you should watch your own language about everything related to Africa before you accuse others of something (like viewing Africa as a country instead of a continent).
Secondly, I do not agree with the insinuation that the current state of affairs on this website indicates that the cultures and given names from the African continent are not seen as unique and important. There is a certain prejudice in those words of yours, namely that the current situation indicates that the webmaster might be racist. That is pure projection on your part. Have you considered that it is quite difficult to find reliable etymological sources (let alone onomastic ones) about the many languages from Africa? The webmaster essentially has to have the luck to be approached by someone from Africa, who is willing and able to give him information about the names from their culture. This is why there is not as much information about given names from Africa's cultures as there is for cultures from other continents.
You should also take into consideration that some cultures do not wish to have their names recorded and archived. For example: a while ago, members of a Native American tribe requested for their names to be removed from this website, stating that their culture's names are not intended for use by outsiders in any way whatsoever. In fact: they viewed the presence of their names here as cultural appropriation. It could be that there are cultures in Africa that hold similar views.
All in all, this whole post of yours says more about you and your personal views than it does about the webmaster and his website. I also find it quite telling that you felt the need to share your "suggestion" publicly instead of sharing your concerns privately: you seem to be wanting to use an element of shame, i.e. shaming the webmaster into making changes by publicly making thinly veiled accusations at him. Well, that is not the way to go about it, obviously. I advise you to take a less accusatory and more open-minded approach next time. Otherwise, you are free to do so much research to the point that you can create your own website - a scholarly one that is exclusively dedicated to given names from the African continent. Let's see how far you get!
In ic quad: "uuie sal geuan mi fetheron also duuon, in ic fliugon sal in raston sal?"
Replies
Out of curiosity, were those Native American names removed in the end?
Yes, they were.
I respectfully decline to make further comments about that particular matter (in case you were hoping for more information), as that seems to be the wisest course of action in the long run. Thank you in advance for your understanding! :)
I respectfully decline to make further comments about that particular matter (in case you were hoping for more information), as that seems to be the wisest course of action in the long run. Thank you in advance for your understanding! :)
yes ...
And also, many African languages are spoken in more than one country in the given region. So saying that a name is "Nigerian" would be inaccurate if it was also commonly used in Kenya. And of course, many countries have more than one official language and many more that aren't official but are still widely spoken, and that complicates the categorization.
And also, many African languages are spoken in more than one country in the given region. So saying that a name is "Nigerian" would be inaccurate if it was also commonly used in Kenya. And of course, many countries have more than one official language and many more that aren't official but are still widely spoken, and that complicates the categorization.
I agree with the points made in this response 100%. It articulates what I wanted to say better than I ever could.
I also agree that the OP was too aggressive, but I’m not sure we need to meet that aggression with quite so much of our own.
Hopefully this will end up opening the door for a calm, rational discussion on the representation of non-Euro-centric names on this site. It’s a very well-researched, well-maintained and trusted source and it would be the ideal place for an expanded database of African names if such a thing were feasible. I wouldn’t mind hearing from the powers that be about why it hasn’t happened so far.
I also agree that the OP was too aggressive, but I’m not sure we need to meet that aggression with quite so much of our own.
Hopefully this will end up opening the door for a calm, rational discussion on the representation of non-Euro-centric names on this site. It’s a very well-researched, well-maintained and trusted source and it would be the ideal place for an expanded database of African names if such a thing were feasible. I wouldn’t mind hearing from the powers that be about why it hasn’t happened so far.
Apart from all the points that Dorchadas made so very cogently, I suspect it's a matter of priorities. Making lists and doing statistical things for no urgent and/or profitable reason is a very First World thing to do. South Africa is pretty sophisticated in many ways, but we don't make births, marriages and deaths statistics available annually, let along lists of names in use! And in large parts of the continent, people and governments and bureaucracies are focused on survival, and anything that doesn't actually do that will probably not get done.
I have been able to send Mike C a couple of lists of Top Ten Names in the Last Year, which did come from the Department of Home Affairs and should be reliable (the Dept claims to be working on being more informative; which would be nice. We'll see.) but are just that - lists. With no indication of which language the names are used in, let alone what they mean. And if we can't do a decent job, I don't hold out much hope for, let's say, South Sudan, though I'd love to be proved wrong.
I have been able to send Mike C a couple of lists of Top Ten Names in the Last Year, which did come from the Department of Home Affairs and should be reliable (the Dept claims to be working on being more informative; which would be nice. We'll see.) but are just that - lists. With no indication of which language the names are used in, let alone what they mean. And if we can't do a decent job, I don't hold out much hope for, let's say, South Sudan, though I'd love to be proved wrong.