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Help[Facts] Tchélétis
I found this name in the submitted names without any information. Using a search engine, I came up with some links to genealogical sites featuring a Tchélétis de Trèves (11th century). The information on those sites was almost identical and probably goes back to one single source (that I don't know and cannot assess).
However, Tchélétis looks like a copying error or awful mistake for some other name for several reasons:
* Neither French nor German feature names with initial Tch- (or Tsch-)
* It cannot be related etymologically to names that were popular at that time
* It is borne by only one person
So my questions:
Is that "Tchélétis de Trèves" known by other (probably better preserved) names?
What do do with this name? Keep it as it is, or delete it as a probably corrupted name form?
--elbowin
However, Tchélétis looks like a copying error or awful mistake for some other name for several reasons:
* Neither French nor German feature names with initial Tch- (or Tsch-)
* It cannot be related etymologically to names that were popular at that time
* It is borne by only one person
So my questions:
Is that "Tchélétis de Trèves" known by other (probably better preserved) names?
What do do with this name? Keep it as it is, or delete it as a probably corrupted name form?
--elbowin
This message was edited 10/19/2017, 5:14 AM
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Replies
This is from the family tree of Eleanor of Aquitaine, with which I am fairly familiar. Like multiple medieval names in this tree, it is quite probably a nickname or a transliteration of some other name, but you could spend a lifetime trying to ascertain a) of what and b) whether said person actually existed. And as you say, there's only one instance of it recorded. I'd delete it.
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Cleves at that time wold have been in an Old Dutch/Old Low Franconian dialect area, but that doesn't explain anything either.
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It is Trèves, today Trier, not Clèves (today Kleve). Trier is now in the German (Moselfränkisch) Dialekt area, but at the time given there were relics of Romance dialects in the area still spoken. But again, neither language explains that name.
In the submitted names database I found a Hebrew name Tchelet (f) "blue", but I cannot see how this name could relate to Tchélétis' name. In Tchelet (or Tekhelet) the "ch" grapheme corresponds to a /x/ sound, not a /sh/ sound.
--elbowin
In the submitted names database I found a Hebrew name Tchelet (f) "blue", but I cannot see how this name could relate to Tchélétis' name. In Tchelet (or Tekhelet) the "ch" grapheme corresponds to a /x/ sound, not a /sh/ sound.
--elbowin
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Is there no chance that somewhere there could be a connection to what is nowadays the Netherlands? It's not like the German city of Trier is all that far away from Maastricht, the southernmost Dutch city. Tj- in Dutch could pretty easily have ended up transcribed or misspelled as Tch- in a foreign language.
Otherwise, the name is probably a partially latinized Frankish given name (the -is ending indicates latinization), possibly written down by someone who was either not that literate or to whom the name was so foreign/unusual that he wrote it down exactly as he heard it (e.g. perhaps the name actually starts with Ch-, but the person thought he heard a 't', so he wrote Tch-). Both scenarios are not unthinkable for the medieval period, as not many people were literate back then (and those that were, were so in varying degrees) plus there were no strict or universal spelling rules at the time either.
Otherwise, the name is probably a partially latinized Frankish given name (the -is ending indicates latinization), possibly written down by someone who was either not that literate or to whom the name was so foreign/unusual that he wrote it down exactly as he heard it (e.g. perhaps the name actually starts with Ch-, but the person thought he heard a 't', so he wrote Tch-). Both scenarios are not unthinkable for the medieval period, as not many people were literate back then (and those that were, were so in varying degrees) plus there were no strict or universal spelling rules at the time either.
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I must have been asleep. All I can think then is someone's inaccurate attempt to transcribe or modernise some name or occupation derived from Latin zelus, like a zelatrix, with Tch for Ts/z.
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