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Help[Facts] Re: Neo-Hebraic Interpolations...
in reply to a message by Sabertooth
Wikipedia seems to agree with you here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joanna), but it's uncited. I can't find any other sources that back this, but it makes more sense to me that if Yochanah was in use back then, it may well have been as a male name. Also, if it's used on female Hebrew speakers today, it is probably derived from Johanna and not the other way around. So, as long as there aren't sources that confirm that theory, I wouldn't add it to the database.
Joshana doesn't make sense because the Hebrew form of Hosanna is hosha na (with a heh). Hehs aren't anglicized into J's, yuds are.
I think Nissiah does make sense syntactically as a made up name.
Joshana doesn't make sense because the Hebrew form of Hosanna is hosha na (with a heh). Hehs aren't anglicized into J's, yuds are.
I think Nissiah does make sense syntactically as a made up name.
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Thanks again for looking at these.
On JOHANNAH: all of my sources tell me that |-ah| is a feminine ending in Hebrew: Deborah, Hannah, Sarah, Zipporah, etc. (In the case of JONAH, the "AH" was not a suffix. The patriarch, NOAH, is actually |Noach| and there was an Israeli[th?] NOAH. [To Noa: is that your given name, or a cybernym?]
(See
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5146&t=KJV and
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5270&t=KJV )
I also thought that since |Chanan| & |Channah| were matched pairs
(See
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H2605&t=KJV and
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H2584&t=KJV ),
|Yowchanan| & |Yowchannah| (with two n's) would be matched pairs, too.
The JOHANNA's in Israel today probably did receive their names through European channels. But, as I see it, there are only two ways for the Greeks to have had a |Ioanna|:
On JOHANNAH: all of my sources tell me that |-ah| is a feminine ending in Hebrew: Deborah, Hannah, Sarah, Zipporah, etc. (In the case of JONAH, the "AH" was not a suffix. The patriarch, NOAH, is actually |Noach| and there was an Israeli[th?] NOAH. [To Noa: is that your given name, or a cybernym?]
(See
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5146&t=KJV and
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5270&t=KJV )
I also thought that since |Chanan| & |Channah| were matched pairs
(See
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H2605&t=KJV and
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H2584&t=KJV ),
|Yowchanan| & |Yowchannah| (with two n's) would be matched pairs, too.
The JOHANNA's in Israel today probably did receive their names through European channels. But, as I see it, there are only two ways for the Greeks to have had a |Ioanna|:
- Grecize |Yowchanan| to |Ioannes| and feminize it, or
- Grecize an existing, unattested Hebrew feminine form of the name.
- The Greek feminine of |Ioannes| would have been |Ioanne|, where the given ending |-a| can be better explained as the Grecized Hebrew feminine ending |-ah|. (The Wikipedia article contradicts itself on that point.)
- I am guessing that, if she was Jewish, her first language and given name would have also been Jewish; that the Greek transcription required a Greek transliteration, just as it did when quoting [Torah] prophets and identifying other contemporary Jewish figures.
This message was edited 9/6/2014, 11:02 PM
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About Yochanna... could be. I'm not an expert on Hebrew names in those times, so it's possible there was a Hebrew female name linking Yochanan and Ioanna, especially with the sources you brought (I don't really know the New Testament, sorry). I think an actual expert/etymologist/historian should weigh in on this, because the fact that it makes sense for a name to exist doesn't automatically mean it existed. Anyway, even if it wasn't the actual historical link, I think it does make sense as a construct.
And yup, Noa is my given name (as in Zelophehad's daughter). :)
And yup, Noa is my given name (as in Zelophehad's daughter). :)
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http://www.hebrewnewtestament.com/aramaic.htm
This message was edited 9/7/2014, 12:01 AM
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This is from the Aramaic English New Testament ( http://www.hebrewnewtestament.com/ ),
http://www.messianic-torah-truth-seeker.org/Scriptures/Brit-Hadashah/Loukas/Loukas08.htm
http://www.messianic-torah-truth-seeker.org/Scriptures/Brit-Hadashah/Loukas/Loukas24.htm
Wouldn't that make YOCHANAH a Biblical Aramaic name, at least?
(I realize that the AENT is a recent work, but his source text is supposed to be very old. Supposedly, it is one generation after the original/lost Hebrew text, without having been translated to & from Greek, first.)
http://www.messianic-torah-truth-seeker.org/Scriptures/Brit-Hadashah/Loukas/Loukas08.htm
http://www.messianic-torah-truth-seeker.org/Scriptures/Brit-Hadashah/Loukas/Loukas24.htm
Wouldn't that make YOCHANAH a Biblical Aramaic name, at least?
(I realize that the AENT is a recent work, but his source text is supposed to be very old. Supposedly, it is one generation after the original/lost Hebrew text, without having been translated to & from Greek, first.)
This message was edited 9/7/2014, 6:12 AM
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Modern examples having two n's and ending in "h".
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCO_yqZF4LPO8HkV6_5g_1mg
https://www.facebook.com/yochannah
https://twitter.com/yochannah
Are these European-channel JOHANNA's who just added a final "h", or did they go to an older source?
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCO_yqZF4LPO8HkV6_5g_1mg
https://www.facebook.com/yochannah
https://twitter.com/yochannah
Are these European-channel JOHANNA's who just added a final "h", or did they go to an older source?
This message was edited 9/7/2014, 11:47 PM
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