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Help[Facts] Neo-Hebraic Interpolations...
This should be a consideration for the Name Tree feature:
There is a feminine name, |Ioanna| (see JOANNA), that appears in the New Testament. It is a Greek form of a Hebrew name that does not appear in the Old Testament. This means that it is not its aboriginal form.
Looking at the related JOHN < |Yowchanan| < |Yehowchanan| and HANNAH < |Channah|, I interpolated that the Greek |Ioanna| must have arisen from a Hebrew |Yowchannah| < |Yehowchannah|.
|Yowchannah| became JOHANNAH when Anglicized. Her final |-h| is novel in that regard and shows that it is not a derivative of the later JOHANNA, but rather an Anglicization of its suspected earliest feminine form.
In our case, we capitalized the first H [JoHannah] to show a clear break in the name comparable to the variant JO-ANNA.
In similar fashion, I Anglicized |yasha na'|, the suspected Hebrew form of Grecized |hosanna| into JOSHANA.
From the title, Jehovah-nissi |Yehovah nicciy| "Jehovah, my Banner" < |nec| "banner or standard" + |-iyah| "of Jehovah," I interpolated |Nicciyah|, which Anglicized to NISSIAH.
All three of these names were derived from Old Testament Hebrew names that never officially existed. That is why I call them Neo-Hebraic constructs. (Remember, we are free to do this in a euphonic naming culture.)
"Like arrows in the hands of a warrior are sons born in one's youth." Ps. 127:4
JoHannah Jubilee, BenJudah Gabriel, Aaron Josiah, Jordan Uriah,
Maranatha Nissiah, (Anastasia Nike, 1992-1992), Jeshua David,
Shiloh Joshana, Elijah Daniel, Hezekiah Nathaniel, Zephaniah Joseph
There is a feminine name, |Ioanna| (see JOANNA), that appears in the New Testament. It is a Greek form of a Hebrew name that does not appear in the Old Testament. This means that it is not its aboriginal form.
Looking at the related JOHN < |Yowchanan| < |Yehowchanan| and HANNAH < |Channah|, I interpolated that the Greek |Ioanna| must have arisen from a Hebrew |Yowchannah| < |Yehowchannah|.
|Yowchannah| became JOHANNAH when Anglicized. Her final |-h| is novel in that regard and shows that it is not a derivative of the later JOHANNA, but rather an Anglicization of its suspected earliest feminine form.
In our case, we capitalized the first H [JoHannah] to show a clear break in the name comparable to the variant JO-ANNA.
In similar fashion, I Anglicized |yasha na'|, the suspected Hebrew form of Grecized |hosanna| into JOSHANA.
From the title, Jehovah-nissi |Yehovah nicciy| "Jehovah, my Banner" < |nec| "banner or standard" + |-iyah| "of Jehovah," I interpolated |Nicciyah|, which Anglicized to NISSIAH.
All three of these names were derived from Old Testament Hebrew names that never officially existed. That is why I call them Neo-Hebraic constructs. (Remember, we are free to do this in a euphonic naming culture.)
JoHannah Jubilee, BenJudah Gabriel, Aaron Josiah, Jordan Uriah,
Maranatha Nissiah, (Anastasia Nike, 1992-1992), Jeshua David,
Shiloh Joshana, Elijah Daniel, Hezekiah Nathaniel, Zephaniah Joseph
This message was edited 9/5/2014, 3:35 AM
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Replies
Wikipedia seems to agree with you here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joanna), but it's uncited. I can't find any other sources that back this, but it makes more sense to me that if Yochanah was in use back then, it may well have been as a male name. Also, if it's used on female Hebrew speakers today, it is probably derived from Johanna and not the other way around. So, as long as there aren't sources that confirm that theory, I wouldn't add it to the database.
Joshana doesn't make sense because the Hebrew form of Hosanna is hosha na (with a heh). Hehs aren't anglicized into J's, yuds are.
I think Nissiah does make sense syntactically as a made up name.
Joshana doesn't make sense because the Hebrew form of Hosanna is hosha na (with a heh). Hehs aren't anglicized into J's, yuds are.
I think Nissiah does make sense syntactically as a made up name.
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Thanks again for looking at these.
On JOHANNAH: all of my sources tell me that |-ah| is a feminine ending in Hebrew: Deborah, Hannah, Sarah, Zipporah, etc. (In the case of JONAH, the "AH" was not a suffix. The patriarch, NOAH, is actually |Noach| and there was an Israeli[th?] NOAH. [To Noa: is that your given name, or a cybernym?]
(See
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5146&t=KJV and
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5270&t=KJV )
I also thought that since |Chanan| & |Channah| were matched pairs
(See
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H2605&t=KJV and
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H2584&t=KJV ),
|Yowchanan| & |Yowchannah| (with two n's) would be matched pairs, too.
The JOHANNA's in Israel today probably did receive their names through European channels. But, as I see it, there are only two ways for the Greeks to have had a |Ioanna|:
On JOHANNAH: all of my sources tell me that |-ah| is a feminine ending in Hebrew: Deborah, Hannah, Sarah, Zipporah, etc. (In the case of JONAH, the "AH" was not a suffix. The patriarch, NOAH, is actually |Noach| and there was an Israeli[th?] NOAH. [To Noa: is that your given name, or a cybernym?]
(See
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5146&t=KJV and
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5270&t=KJV )
I also thought that since |Chanan| & |Channah| were matched pairs
(See
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H2605&t=KJV and
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H2584&t=KJV ),
|Yowchanan| & |Yowchannah| (with two n's) would be matched pairs, too.
The JOHANNA's in Israel today probably did receive their names through European channels. But, as I see it, there are only two ways for the Greeks to have had a |Ioanna|:
- Grecize |Yowchanan| to |Ioannes| and feminize it, or
- Grecize an existing, unattested Hebrew feminine form of the name.
- The Greek feminine of |Ioannes| would have been |Ioanne|, where the given ending |-a| can be better explained as the Grecized Hebrew feminine ending |-ah|. (The Wikipedia article contradicts itself on that point.)
- I am guessing that, if she was Jewish, her first language and given name would have also been Jewish; that the Greek transcription required a Greek transliteration, just as it did when quoting [Torah] prophets and identifying other contemporary Jewish figures.
This message was edited 9/6/2014, 11:02 PM
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About Yochanna... could be. I'm not an expert on Hebrew names in those times, so it's possible there was a Hebrew female name linking Yochanan and Ioanna, especially with the sources you brought (I don't really know the New Testament, sorry). I think an actual expert/etymologist/historian should weigh in on this, because the fact that it makes sense for a name to exist doesn't automatically mean it existed. Anyway, even if it wasn't the actual historical link, I think it does make sense as a construct.
And yup, Noa is my given name (as in Zelophehad's daughter). :)
And yup, Noa is my given name (as in Zelophehad's daughter). :)
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http://www.hebrewnewtestament.com/aramaic.htm
This message was edited 9/7/2014, 12:01 AM
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This is from the Aramaic English New Testament ( http://www.hebrewnewtestament.com/ ),
http://www.messianic-torah-truth-seeker.org/Scriptures/Brit-Hadashah/Loukas/Loukas08.htm
http://www.messianic-torah-truth-seeker.org/Scriptures/Brit-Hadashah/Loukas/Loukas24.htm
Wouldn't that make YOCHANAH a Biblical Aramaic name, at least?
(I realize that the AENT is a recent work, but his source text is supposed to be very old. Supposedly, it is one generation after the original/lost Hebrew text, without having been translated to & from Greek, first.)
http://www.messianic-torah-truth-seeker.org/Scriptures/Brit-Hadashah/Loukas/Loukas08.htm
http://www.messianic-torah-truth-seeker.org/Scriptures/Brit-Hadashah/Loukas/Loukas24.htm
Wouldn't that make YOCHANAH a Biblical Aramaic name, at least?
(I realize that the AENT is a recent work, but his source text is supposed to be very old. Supposedly, it is one generation after the original/lost Hebrew text, without having been translated to & from Greek, first.)
This message was edited 9/7/2014, 6:12 AM
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Modern examples having two n's and ending in "h".
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCO_yqZF4LPO8HkV6_5g_1mg
https://www.facebook.com/yochannah
https://twitter.com/yochannah
Are these European-channel JOHANNA's who just added a final "h", or did they go to an older source?
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCO_yqZF4LPO8HkV6_5g_1mg
https://www.facebook.com/yochannah
https://twitter.com/yochannah
Are these European-channel JOHANNA's who just added a final "h", or did they go to an older source?
This message was edited 9/7/2014, 11:47 PM
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Two of my sons, AARON & ELIJAH retain their English spellings, but (in our case), we changed their Hebrew spellings:
Per http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H175&t=KJV ,
AARON |'Aharown| is "of uncertain derivation."
We have adopted the construct |Yahh| + |arown|, which would mean "Yahveh's vessel."
See
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3050&t=KJV and
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H727&t=KJV
For ELIJAH |'Eliyah| "My God is Yahveh"
(see http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H452&t=KJV ),
we exchanged the |'el| part of his name for Eli |`Eliy| "elevated."
Compare
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=H410&t=KJV and
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5941&t=KJV
The new construct, |`Eliy| + |-iyah|, would mean "Raised up by Yahveh."
Per http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H175&t=KJV ,
AARON |'Aharown| is "of uncertain derivation."
We have adopted the construct |Yahh| + |arown|, which would mean "Yahveh's vessel."
See
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3050&t=KJV and
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H727&t=KJV
For ELIJAH |'Eliyah| "My God is Yahveh"
(see http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H452&t=KJV ),
we exchanged the |'el| part of his name for Eli |`Eliy| "elevated."
Compare
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=H410&t=KJV and
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5941&t=KJV
The new construct, |`Eliy| + |-iyah|, would mean "Raised up by Yahveh."
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In my opinion, these don't feel right syntactically.
Aaron: First of all, I can't think of cases in which a yud is ignored completely during translation and not turned into a Y or a J, especially when it's from the element yah. Names that begin with this element also have a vowel sound right after it (Yehonatan, Yehonadav, etc.) and don't jump right in with a glottal stop that would render the name unpronounceable. If you want to add these elements together you'd get something like Yaha'aron which is not what you're aiming for. Additionally, the meaning you're looking for has a perfectly good phrase already, in which the words are in the opposite order (aron adonai). So, all in all, this meaning and spelling for Aaron/Aharon is a really big stretch, and feels very wrong to me.
Elijah: I don't feel as though 'eli + yah would get an E sound at the beginning, that feels very odd grammatically. On the other hand, Aliyah exists as a word and does not contain the yah element so I am not sure what it would turn into. Elijah feels like a stretch to me.
Anyway, I'm sorry I'm not an expert on ancient Hebrew or linguistics so I can't give you any actual analysis (or anything much past a gut feeling). I hope this helps.
Aaron: First of all, I can't think of cases in which a yud is ignored completely during translation and not turned into a Y or a J, especially when it's from the element yah. Names that begin with this element also have a vowel sound right after it (Yehonatan, Yehonadav, etc.) and don't jump right in with a glottal stop that would render the name unpronounceable. If you want to add these elements together you'd get something like Yaha'aron which is not what you're aiming for. Additionally, the meaning you're looking for has a perfectly good phrase already, in which the words are in the opposite order (aron adonai). So, all in all, this meaning and spelling for Aaron/Aharon is a really big stretch, and feels very wrong to me.
Elijah: I don't feel as though 'eli + yah would get an E sound at the beginning, that feels very odd grammatically. On the other hand, Aliyah exists as a word and does not contain the yah element so I am not sure what it would turn into. Elijah feels like a stretch to me.
Anyway, I'm sorry I'm not an expert on ancient Hebrew or linguistics so I can't give you any actual analysis (or anything much past a gut feeling). I hope this helps.
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Thanks for the critique.
This is what I noticed with |'Aharown|,
We have been taught that when G-d changed the names of Abram "spacey father" or "delusional father" & Sarai "contentious," He did so by adding part of His name to theirs, forming AbrAHam "major patriarch" & SarAH "princess." Is this not consistent with Hebrew teaching?
It seemed to me that the leading |AH| in |'AHarown| might also be the same element. (They all lacked the leading |y-| consonant.)
Also, I have seen JARON given to be a variant of AARON in some baby name books, which would be consistent with my proposed alternative etymology.
This is what I noticed with |'Aharown|,
We have been taught that when G-d changed the names of Abram "spacey father" or "delusional father" & Sarai "contentious," He did so by adding part of His name to theirs, forming AbrAHam "major patriarch" & SarAH "princess." Is this not consistent with Hebrew teaching?
It seemed to me that the leading |AH| in |'AHarown| might also be the same element. (They all lacked the leading |y-| consonant.)
Also, I have seen JARON given to be a variant of AARON in some baby name books, which would be consistent with my proposed alternative etymology.
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In the Bible itself, it says straightforwardly that the extra heh that was added to Abram's name came from the word "hamon", meaning many, referring to his fathering many nations. That's also what it says on this site's entry. I'm pretty sure the whole "heh from God's name" thing came up much later as part of a folk etymology in some of the interpretations.
Anyway, the added heh only makes sense when added to the M that already ended his name, because it gives the name a whole new meaning. This means it is definitely not the same element as in Aharon (which is probably not even Hebrew in origin).
Jaron is from Yaron - totally separate name. Baby name books are not always correct. Yuds do not randomly disappear from Hebrew spellings of a name, especially when they are part of the element yah.
Anyway, the added heh only makes sense when added to the M that already ended his name, because it gives the name a whole new meaning. This means it is definitely not the same element as in Aharon (which is probably not even Hebrew in origin).
Jaron is from Yaron - totally separate name. Baby name books are not always correct. Yuds do not randomly disappear from Hebrew spellings of a name, especially when they are part of the element yah.
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