New Post
Search
Help[Facts] Understanding Old Irish Names
I've been doing some genealogy research and I've come across names that I don't understand. I'm not familiar with what are (I believe) Irish names and terms for kings, etc.
From the list of names that follow, can someone help me identify what parts are first names, surnames, or other terms of address?
(1) Aergul Lawhir AP TRFFYN Brenin Ddyfed, also listed as Brenin Ddyfed Aergul Lawhir o Ddyfed
(2) Mes Corp mac Mes Gegra UÍ ÉREMÓIN
(3) Eochaid Feidlech MAC FINN Ard-rí na h'Éireann
The websites that I found the names on are listed below. Thank you very much for your help!
Sara
Website for (1): http://celtic-casimir.com/webtree/29/70936.htm
Website for (2): http://www.celtic-casimir.com/webtree/29/71138.htm
Website for (3): http://www.celtic-casimir.com/webtree/15/27644.htm
From the list of names that follow, can someone help me identify what parts are first names, surnames, or other terms of address?
(1) Aergul Lawhir AP TRFFYN Brenin Ddyfed, also listed as Brenin Ddyfed Aergul Lawhir o Ddyfed
(2) Mes Corp mac Mes Gegra UÍ ÉREMÓIN
(3) Eochaid Feidlech MAC FINN Ard-rí na h'Éireann
The websites that I found the names on are listed below. Thank you very much for your help!
Sara
Website for (1): http://celtic-casimir.com/webtree/29/70936.htm
Website for (2): http://www.celtic-casimir.com/webtree/29/71138.htm
Website for (3): http://www.celtic-casimir.com/webtree/15/27644.htm
1
Replies
Corp is the Irish for body.
1
As far as I know this is how they translate
(1) Welsh not Irish.
Aergul Lawhir son of Trffyn, king of Dyfed
(2)Mes Corp son of Mes Gegra grandson/descendant of ÉREMÓIN
(3) Eochaid Feidlech son of Finn, High king of Ireland
generally if you learn the patronymics - Mac in Gaelic, Ap in Welsh and also Ui or O in Irish meaning descendant, then it helps break up the list and indicate what's a name.
(1) Welsh not Irish.
Aergul Lawhir son of Trffyn, king of Dyfed
(2)Mes Corp son of Mes Gegra grandson/descendant of ÉREMÓIN
(3) Eochaid Feidlech son of Finn, High king of Ireland
generally if you learn the patronymics - Mac in Gaelic, Ap in Welsh and also Ui or O in Irish meaning descendant, then it helps break up the list and indicate what's a name.
This message was edited 11/30/2007, 9:59 AM
1
Thanks for your help! Knowing the patronymics helps me to break down the names.
I'm still a bit confused as to what are given names and what are surnames? I'm guessing that in example (1) Aergul Lawhir is the given name and there is no surname; he would just be referred to as Ap Trffyn instead of having a surname. Do you know if I'm on the right track here?
Thanks,
Sara
I'm still a bit confused as to what are given names and what are surnames? I'm guessing that in example (1) Aergul Lawhir is the given name and there is no surname; he would just be referred to as Ap Trffyn instead of having a surname. Do you know if I'm on the right track here?
Thanks,
Sara
1
Surnames as we understand them wouldn't have been used in this period. yes patronymics would have been to identify people, and also defining characteristics. Lawhir apparently means 'long hand' and for Eochaid Feidlech, Feidlech is an epithet meaning 'the enduring'.
I can't find anything for Mes Corp or Mes Gegra but I would guess Corp and Gegra are both identifiable features used to distinguish both father and son called Mes.
Offhand, some common Gaelic ones you might spot are
Og - younger, jnr
Beag - small
Mor - Big (e.g. one Scottish king was Malcolm Canmore - Can = head, mor = big so Malcolm Bighead!)
Fionn - Fair
Dubh - Black
Donn - Brown
Good luck with your research!
I can't find anything for Mes Corp or Mes Gegra but I would guess Corp and Gegra are both identifiable features used to distinguish both father and son called Mes.
Offhand, some common Gaelic ones you might spot are
Og - younger, jnr
Beag - small
Mor - Big (e.g. one Scottish king was Malcolm Canmore - Can = head, mor = big so Malcolm Bighead!)
Fionn - Fair
Dubh - Black
Donn - Brown
Good luck with your research!
This message was edited 11/30/2007, 12:19 PM
1
"Ard-Rí na h'Eireann" means High King of Ireland.
1
The first one is Welsh, not Irish. Brenin Ddyfed means King of Ddyfed. I looked up Ddyfed and apparently it's actually Dyfed. Must have changed names or been a typo. Not that I know any more than that, but hopefully that will help somewhat. :)
This message was edited 11/30/2007, 5:20 AM
1