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Help[Opinions] Re: Random BA's
in reply to a message by Sabrina Fair
What's with all the Bluebells? I mean, it's kind of a cute name, actually, but it really surprises me...
While this is definitely the most... interesting... BA list I'e ever seen, there are a few I'd use (Harlyn, London, Sawyer, Wynter, Blue, Edyn, Shiloh, Willow... But those two spelled Winter and Eden). But Bileigh? Ugonna? ZamZam? Pippa Pearl Jean?!?!? What were the parents thinking?
While this is definitely the most... interesting... BA list I'e ever seen, there are a few I'd use (Harlyn, London, Sawyer, Wynter, Blue, Edyn, Shiloh, Willow... But those two spelled Winter and Eden). But Bileigh? Ugonna? ZamZam? Pippa Pearl Jean?!?!? What were the parents thinking?
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Replies
Ugonna and ZamZam
Ugonna is a very common Nigerian name. If you would do just a bit of Googling you'd find several references to well-known men named Ugonna who could have inspired the parents:
http://www.ugonnaokegwo.com/
http://www.nba.com/draft2003/profiles/OnyekweUgonna.html
http://www.s9.com/Biography/Wachuku-Ugonna
ZamZam is the name of the holy well that provides water to pilgrims on the Hajj in Mecca, originally said to have been discovered by Hagar when she was saving the life of her son Ishmael, and is therefore a name of great religious significance to Muslims:
http://www.ezsoftech.com/hajj/hajj_article2.asp
You know, if you would bother to do some research, you will usually find that parents who give names you dislike were thinking just as much as you do.
Ugonna is a very common Nigerian name. If you would do just a bit of Googling you'd find several references to well-known men named Ugonna who could have inspired the parents:
http://www.ugonnaokegwo.com/
http://www.nba.com/draft2003/profiles/OnyekweUgonna.html
http://www.s9.com/Biography/Wachuku-Ugonna
ZamZam is the name of the holy well that provides water to pilgrims on the Hajj in Mecca, originally said to have been discovered by Hagar when she was saving the life of her son Ishmael, and is therefore a name of great religious significance to Muslims:
http://www.ezsoftech.com/hajj/hajj_article2.asp
You know, if you would bother to do some research, you will usually find that parents who give names you dislike were thinking just as much as you do.
This message was edited 5/27/2007, 4:19 PM
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Er, I think the parents WEREN'T thinking...
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me either
While it may be true that the names in question may have special significance in certain circles, I find it highly doubtful, based on experience and knowledge of human nature, that the parents actually knew or cared what their name choices meant in other languages/religions/cultures. They probably thought they'd invented them. I can possibly see Ugonna being used because it was a common Nigerian name. But I am willing to bet that little ZamZam is not named after any sacred well in the Bible. It would be nice to believe that, I mean, anything is better than believing her name was just picked randomly because it "sounded cute" but chances are the parents do not know the name of the well in the Bible. I know I didn't know its name and I've read the Bible. If anything, ZamZam sounds like a child's nn, like for Zambia, maybe. That would make it similar to a lot of kids' nn's, like Nee-Nee or Boo-Boo or Ki-Ki.
I understand that Dr. Evans is the reigning expert on the meanings and history behind names, and I respect his opinions and judgments very much. However, there is a tendency sometimes in some circles to overanalyze and find significance where little or none exists.
As Freud himself once said "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." And sometimes, a silly name is just a silly name.
While it may be true that the names in question may have special significance in certain circles, I find it highly doubtful, based on experience and knowledge of human nature, that the parents actually knew or cared what their name choices meant in other languages/religions/cultures. They probably thought they'd invented them. I can possibly see Ugonna being used because it was a common Nigerian name. But I am willing to bet that little ZamZam is not named after any sacred well in the Bible. It would be nice to believe that, I mean, anything is better than believing her name was just picked randomly because it "sounded cute" but chances are the parents do not know the name of the well in the Bible. I know I didn't know its name and I've read the Bible. If anything, ZamZam sounds like a child's nn, like for Zambia, maybe. That would make it similar to a lot of kids' nn's, like Nee-Nee or Boo-Boo or Ki-Ki.
I understand that Dr. Evans is the reigning expert on the meanings and history behind names, and I respect his opinions and judgments very much. However, there is a tendency sometimes in some circles to overanalyze and find significance where little or none exists.
As Freud himself once said "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." And sometimes, a silly name is just a silly name.
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Sorry, I consider it highly prejudicial to jump to conclusions about names one doesn't like being chosen "just because they sounded cute" before one has actually interviewed the parents about this. And why are you assuming that the parents of all of the children on this list have to be from YOUR culture? There are thousands of Muslim immigrants in both the UK and North America who would be very well acquainted with the meaning of Zamzam in Islam; it would be a name from THEIR OWN CULTURE, not one they chose from another one.
One thing I have learned from being a name expert over the years is that you CANNOT assume what the parents' reason for giving a name was unless you ask them personally. Sometimes a silly name is "just a silly name", but often there are very "non-silly" reasons.
ZamZam is NOT made up of sounds which are presently very popular with people who create names. It seems much more likely to me that it was a name given by Muslim parents who know about the well in Mecca than that it was created like Nee-Nee or Boo-Boo.
And it's a Muslim name, so of course it's irrelevant that it's not mentioned in the Bible. If you Google ZamZam, you find all sorts of references to the use of the name for real estate projects, schools, etc., around the world because of its connotations for Muslims.
http://www.zamzamtower.com/
http://www.zamzamacademy.com/
http://www.matmedia.org/zamzam/index.html
The thousands of references to Zamzam in an Islamic context on the web make it much more likely this is a name used by Muslim parents than one created by parents who have no knowledge of the name's religious significance.
One thing I have learned from being a name expert over the years is that you CANNOT assume what the parents' reason for giving a name was unless you ask them personally. Sometimes a silly name is "just a silly name", but often there are very "non-silly" reasons.
ZamZam is NOT made up of sounds which are presently very popular with people who create names. It seems much more likely to me that it was a name given by Muslim parents who know about the well in Mecca than that it was created like Nee-Nee or Boo-Boo.
And it's a Muslim name, so of course it's irrelevant that it's not mentioned in the Bible. If you Google ZamZam, you find all sorts of references to the use of the name for real estate projects, schools, etc., around the world because of its connotations for Muslims.
http://www.zamzamtower.com/
http://www.zamzamacademy.com/
http://www.matmedia.org/zamzam/index.html
The thousands of references to Zamzam in an Islamic context on the web make it much more likely this is a name used by Muslim parents than one created by parents who have no knowledge of the name's religious significance.
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Might not be in the Bible. Might be the Koran.
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Woah.
Your earthy sense of humor is usually hilarious, and even anti-intellectualism can be an interesting point of view, but here I think you're just being anti-intellectuals ... "some circles"?
Maybe your response is a misdirected reaction to the way CKE embarrassed Georgia in a rather (IMO) snide and sanctimonious tone. *nod* But without much rethinking, I believe you can see your own analysis is the overwrought one. An "overanalysis" of my own -
Only two facts are available:
1. a child named ZamZam
2. a Biblical place name of significance in some religion, ZamZam
CKE conclusion (no added assumptions): child is most likely named for place. This isn't overanalysis or finding significance where none exists, it's perfect effing logic, using the principle of parsimony (Always tentatively accept the conclusion that requires the fewest assumptions).
Projecting your own assumptions onto the unknown child's situation, you are "doubtful that parents knew or cared about name's significance."
Non-factual and irrelevant assumptions, judgments, biases you added to the mix to draw your conclusion (this is why I say you are the one "overanalyzing" if anyone is):
1 "based on [my personal] experience and knowledge of human nature"
2 "chances are the parents do not know the name of the well in the Bible"
3 "I didn't know its name"
4 "ZamZam sounds [to me] like a child's nickname"
I understand that you have seen a lot of crap naming, and I appreciate your sense of humor about it very much. However, in some circles there is a tendency sometimes to project one's own limited experience onto the whole world, and to find meaninglessness and alienation where significance may possibly exist for someone else. Sometimes, a Biblical reference is just a Biblical reference ... even if it's one you've never heard of that sounds dumb to you.
- mirfak the pedantic, in a self-consciously snide and sanctimonious tone
Your earthy sense of humor is usually hilarious, and even anti-intellectualism can be an interesting point of view, but here I think you're just being anti-intellectuals ... "some circles"?
Maybe your response is a misdirected reaction to the way CKE embarrassed Georgia in a rather (IMO) snide and sanctimonious tone. *nod* But without much rethinking, I believe you can see your own analysis is the overwrought one. An "overanalysis" of my own -
Only two facts are available:
1. a child named ZamZam
2. a Biblical place name of significance in some religion, ZamZam
CKE conclusion (no added assumptions): child is most likely named for place. This isn't overanalysis or finding significance where none exists, it's perfect effing logic, using the principle of parsimony (Always tentatively accept the conclusion that requires the fewest assumptions).
Projecting your own assumptions onto the unknown child's situation, you are "doubtful that parents knew or cared about name's significance."
Non-factual and irrelevant assumptions, judgments, biases you added to the mix to draw your conclusion (this is why I say you are the one "overanalyzing" if anyone is):
1 "based on [my personal] experience and knowledge of human nature"
2 "chances are the parents do not know the name of the well in the Bible"
3 "I didn't know its name"
4 "ZamZam sounds [to me] like a child's nickname"
I understand that you have seen a lot of crap naming, and I appreciate your sense of humor about it very much. However, in some circles there is a tendency sometimes to project one's own limited experience onto the whole world, and to find meaninglessness and alienation where significance may possibly exist for someone else. Sometimes, a Biblical reference is just a Biblical reference ... even if it's one you've never heard of that sounds dumb to you.
- mirfak the pedantic, in a self-consciously snide and sanctimonious tone
This message was edited 5/27/2007, 6:55 PM
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I totally agree with you on one thing...
Which was that CKE was unnecessarily snide and condescending toward Georgia, who was after all, only saying what most of the rest of us had said. What did Georgia say that was so off-base that he had to come over like he was her fed-up teacher and had to snap at her to "look it up before you start spouting off," so to speak? Quite frankly, I think he was showing off.
But while I do think there is a possibility little ZamZam was named after a place of great religious significance, having seen ba's on this board for kids named Big Poppa, Champ, Samantha Pinkie-Pie, I still stand by my assumption that the parents did not intend their name choice to be of any greater significance than "it sounds cute." If we're tossing around old sayings, how about "When you hear hoofbeats, you shouldn't automatically assume it's a zebra. It's probably just a horse."
And we were all three snide and a bit sanctimonious in our own ways. We just happen to be on different sides of the issue. It's a draw.
Which was that CKE was unnecessarily snide and condescending toward Georgia, who was after all, only saying what most of the rest of us had said. What did Georgia say that was so off-base that he had to come over like he was her fed-up teacher and had to snap at her to "look it up before you start spouting off," so to speak? Quite frankly, I think he was showing off.
But while I do think there is a possibility little ZamZam was named after a place of great religious significance, having seen ba's on this board for kids named Big Poppa, Champ, Samantha Pinkie-Pie, I still stand by my assumption that the parents did not intend their name choice to be of any greater significance than "it sounds cute." If we're tossing around old sayings, how about "When you hear hoofbeats, you shouldn't automatically assume it's a zebra. It's probably just a horse."
And we were all three snide and a bit sanctimonious in our own ways. We just happen to be on different sides of the issue. It's a draw.
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Lol, I agree
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