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Help[Facts] Re: Hey Nan and Daividh
in reply to a message by Phyllis
Yeah. After a lifetime of hearing both sides from Mum's various relatives (who somehow get along with each other), I'm convinced there's no right or wrong there -- just tragic misunderstanding and wasted lives. And it never really gets better.
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It all boils down to politics
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And religion, oh Greek One. Think Middle East, Chechnya(?), Bosnia, etc. Even your beloved Greece has had problems you can file under religion.
Phyllis
Phyllis
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As Nan put it, organized politics *does* boil down to politics, particularly once nationalism become involved. I dont believe Milosevic did his thing in Bosnia to "protect Christian Orthodoxy" any more than I believe that Albright nuked Belgrade to "defend the interest of Papacy" (as some Yugos believe). As far as the Israeli-Palestinian question is concerned, the conflict is much deeper than Religion. And Hitler obviously did not perpetrate the Holocaust due to an opposition to Judaism as a religion; he saught a scapegoat to advance his political scemes.
The role of religion has varied widely in Greek history. In polytheistic Greece there was the lack of a codified, organized, dogmatic religion, and there were even statues "to the unknown Gods". As a matter of fact, back then (and even nowadays, but unfortunately to a lesser extent), one of the most offending Greek insults is to call someone "misallodoxos" (i.e., to "a hater the other's belief or religion". The adoption of Christianity (despite the futile attempts by the Emperor Julian philosophers such as Plethon) gave Greeks a first taste of organized religion during the Eastern Roman ("Byzantine") Empire where religion became a means to a political end . The Eastern Roman Empire was a political union of a mosaic of ethnicities throughout Europe and the Middle East, where "Eastern Orthodoxy" bacame the unifying link. The "enemy" was the "Western Roman Empire" personified, inter alia, by Charlemagne, the Francs and the Pope. The scorn between the two "Roman Empires" ultimately caused the downfall of Constantinople, as the Byzantines preferred to be subjugated by the Ottomans than the "Franks"....a long and painful story, which I can ramble on about incessantly. But I'll spare you :P
The role of religion has varied widely in Greek history. In polytheistic Greece there was the lack of a codified, organized, dogmatic religion, and there were even statues "to the unknown Gods". As a matter of fact, back then (and even nowadays, but unfortunately to a lesser extent), one of the most offending Greek insults is to call someone "misallodoxos" (i.e., to "a hater the other's belief or religion". The adoption of Christianity (despite the futile attempts by the Emperor Julian philosophers such as Plethon) gave Greeks a first taste of organized religion during the Eastern Roman ("Byzantine") Empire where religion became a means to a political end . The Eastern Roman Empire was a political union of a mosaic of ethnicities throughout Europe and the Middle East, where "Eastern Orthodoxy" bacame the unifying link. The "enemy" was the "Western Roman Empire" personified, inter alia, by Charlemagne, the Francs and the Pope. The scorn between the two "Roman Empires" ultimately caused the downfall of Constantinople, as the Byzantines preferred to be subjugated by the Ottomans than the "Franks"....a long and painful story, which I can ramble on about incessantly. But I'll spare you :P
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PriaposLovs
I'm a college student. I can sit and discuss almost anything, as long as you don't try to convert me (as some people *with your salvation at heart* do). I'm currently taking a course on Wicca and Neopaganism (as Nanaea can attest to, so to speak).
I came across an interesting website courtesy of my Wiccan instructor http://www.holysmoke.org, dealing with such matters. Might be worth a look.
Phyllis
I'm a college student. I can sit and discuss almost anything, as long as you don't try to convert me (as some people *with your salvation at heart* do). I'm currently taking a course on Wicca and Neopaganism (as Nanaea can attest to, so to speak).
I came across an interesting website courtesy of my Wiccan instructor http://www.holysmoke.org, dealing with such matters. Might be worth a look.
Phyllis
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WHY NOT TRY MY 'GOD' GLASGOW RANGERS FC,MY CHURCH MIGHT BE FULL OF IDIOTS BUT IT GET YOU OF THE COMPUTER FOR A COUPLE OF HOURS ON A SATURDAY!!!!!!!!!
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Very amusing site :) Kinda makes you wonder a bit about how vulnerable human nature is to silliness. As far as converting you, I will have to first consult with Circe :p
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PriaposLovs
Ask Nanaea about the so-called "elders" I've encountered and my latest responses to them. I'm not sure if you Greek guys get what we call either "soap operas" or "daytime dramas". If not, a few of us might be willing to explain what they are.
By the way, I have a classmate in my Wicca class who's a priestess of Circe (or was it Persephone? Or was it Athena? Whatever.) Too bad my class isn't on the 'Net. You guys (Daividh, Nanaea, you, a few others) might've gotten a kick outa it.
Ask Nanaea about the so-called "elders" I've encountered and my latest responses to them. I'm not sure if you Greek guys get what we call either "soap operas" or "daytime dramas". If not, a few of us might be willing to explain what they are.
By the way, I have a classmate in my Wicca class who's a priestess of Circe (or was it Persephone? Or was it Athena? Whatever.) Too bad my class isn't on the 'Net. You guys (Daividh, Nanaea, you, a few others) might've gotten a kick outa it.
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"Ask Nanaea about the so-called "elders" I've encountered and my latest responses to them. I'm not sure if you Greek guys get what we call either "soap operas" or "daytime dramas". If not, a few of us might be willing to explain what they are."
@@@@ Oh, I don't think anyone needs to explain much about American culture to Priapos -- he's spent quite a bit of time in the U.S., and he's pretty cosmopolitan. :)
"By the way, I have a classmate in my Wicca class who's a priestess of Circe (or was it Persephone? Or was it Athena? Whatever.) Too bad my class isn't on the 'Net. You guys (Daividh, Nanaea, you, a few others) might've gotten a kick outa it."
@@@@ "We guys" might've gotten thrown outta the classroom. We be da bad kids in school. ;)
-- Nanaea
@@@@ Oh, I don't think anyone needs to explain much about American culture to Priapos -- he's spent quite a bit of time in the U.S., and he's pretty cosmopolitan. :)
"By the way, I have a classmate in my Wicca class who's a priestess of Circe (or was it Persephone? Or was it Athena? Whatever.) Too bad my class isn't on the 'Net. You guys (Daividh, Nanaea, you, a few others) might've gotten a kick outa it."
@@@@ "We guys" might've gotten thrown outta the classroom. We be da bad kids in school. ;)
-- Nanaea
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Nanaea
We spent the majority of the past two classes discussing *long traditions* and whose *tradition* was longer. And the initial discussion was about the debate between the legitimacy of two old geezers' claims ("My tradition's longer than your tradition."). Unless you make uncalled for comments about someone else's religious practice, the only thing that would get you kicked out is if you broke one of the rules of the university in general.
Phyllis
PS. The "My tradition" comment, in a childish, singsong manner, was by the instructor herself (done to explain the problems between the Gardnerians and the Alexandrians. I'll get into it more some other time.
We spent the majority of the past two classes discussing *long traditions* and whose *tradition* was longer. And the initial discussion was about the debate between the legitimacy of two old geezers' claims ("My tradition's longer than your tradition."). Unless you make uncalled for comments about someone else's religious practice, the only thing that would get you kicked out is if you broke one of the rules of the university in general.
Phyllis
PS. The "My tradition" comment, in a childish, singsong manner, was by the instructor herself (done to explain the problems between the Gardnerians and the Alexandrians. I'll get into it more some other time.
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That's the thing about Wicca that really cracks me up -- all this arguing about whose "tradition" is the oldest. When, in actuality, these are all recently invented religions, same as modern-day Satanism. Satanists, however, readily admit to the fact that Satanism is an invented religion (or, more precisely, a philosophy), and even place the Year One, Anno Satanas, as starting in 1966. There's a bit of debate among Satanists as to whether I A.S. began on Walpurgisnacht of that year (April 30th), or on Jan. 1st -- but that's not really that big an issue.
The Gardnerians were founded in the 1950s by Gerald Gardner, and the Alexandrians in the 1960s by Alex Sanders. And even though members of either group may claim a pedigree dating back to the Burning Times, that doesn't make it so. Nor am I impressed that the Gardnerians were around a decade before the Alexandrians. I swear to the Horned One, I'm gonna invent my own cool religion and call all my followers "Nanaeians". :)
Hey, Priapos? Wanna join?
-- Nanaea
The Gardnerians were founded in the 1950s by Gerald Gardner, and the Alexandrians in the 1960s by Alex Sanders. And even though members of either group may claim a pedigree dating back to the Burning Times, that doesn't make it so. Nor am I impressed that the Gardnerians were around a decade before the Alexandrians. I swear to the Horned One, I'm gonna invent my own cool religion and call all my followers "Nanaeians". :)
Hey, Priapos? Wanna join?
-- Nanaea
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Nanaea
We weren't talking about THAT tradition iykwim. ;) The guys would be a bit more familiar with it...
Phyllis
We weren't talking about THAT tradition iykwim. ;) The guys would be a bit more familiar with it...
Phyllis
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Nanaeanacht , March 11 2001 (Year One, Anno Nanaeis)
Who do I get to sacrifice Daividh, Mistress?
Who do I get to sacrifice Daividh, Mistress?
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Oops I committed an error in syntax -- that was "Do I get to sacrifice Daividh, Mistress?" -- how many blows do I receive in the head for foregiveness, your beatitude?
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Your sin shall be forgiven, for on that memorable evening of Nanaeanacht we were visited upon by the Most High Mike C. Yea, verily, did thou doest good by summoning up His Presence. It was truly a nacht to remember. :)
-- Nanaea
-- Nanaea
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Yea, I celabrated Nanaeanacht by listening to the Most High Pink Floyd song "Echoes" (though earphones).
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The Goddess Nanaea is pleased. She smiles upon you. You shall have much good fortune, up to and including the next Nanaeanacht.
Which, in my cool, invented religion, will occur more than once a year. Coz the Goddess Nanaea likes excuses to party. :)
-- Nanaea
Which, in my cool, invented religion, will occur more than once a year. Coz the Goddess Nanaea likes excuses to party. :)
-- Nanaea
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Warning....
Hey guys,
Just to let you know that this thread is going to be archived within the next day or two, so move your conversation somewhere upwards (ie under a March post)....
Hey guys,
Just to let you know that this thread is going to be archived within the next day or two, so move your conversation somewhere upwards (ie under a March post)....
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"This posting will self-destruct in two days...."
Heheh, Mike C.'s been reading our stuff, and I'll bet he knows more about us than we know about him. I'll also bet that, just like Mr. Phelps, Mike C. has a dossier on every one of us members of his E.M.F. (Etymological Missions Force). ;)
-- Nanaea
Heheh, Mike C.'s been reading our stuff, and I'll bet he knows more about us than we know about him. I'll also bet that, just like Mr. Phelps, Mike C. has a dossier on every one of us members of his E.M.F. (Etymological Missions Force). ;)
-- Nanaea
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Thanks for your kind words, sis!
It might amuse you to know that the last time I was thrown out of anywhere was from a library aeons ago!
It might amuse you to know that the last time I was thrown out of anywhere was from a library aeons ago!
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PriaposLovs
Et tu, Priap? I'm frequently "escorted" out of public libraries (at least once a week). Oh, it was aeons ago you were? I can't say the same for me.
Phyllis
Et tu, Priap? I'm frequently "escorted" out of public libraries (at least once a week). Oh, it was aeons ago you were? I can't say the same for me.
Phyllis
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Was it an American library or a Greek library that gave you the boot? Judging from what you've already told me about the libraries in Greece, I'm going to guess it was Greek. :)
I'm working late tonight, and right now I've got the Anime Club meeting in my Community Room -- a whole bunch of enthusiastic teenagers (with their hair dyed practically every color of the rainbow) using our video projector and having a cool time. I wouldn't dream of throwing any of these kids out of my library, even if they do get a wee bit noisy at times. :)
-- Nanaea
I'm working late tonight, and right now I've got the Anime Club meeting in my Community Room -- a whole bunch of enthusiastic teenagers (with their hair dyed practically every color of the rainbow) using our video projector and having a cool time. I wouldn't dream of throwing any of these kids out of my library, even if they do get a wee bit noisy at times. :)
-- Nanaea
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It was a Greek library all right that gave me the boot!
I was always in good terms with US libraries and libarians :) During my wild years at school in the US, Maria -- a very cool librarian friend-- provided support to my devious conspiracies: she gave me, from her database, the date of birth of any chick that striked my fancy. This enabed me to nonchalantly walk up to them and say b.s. like "I can tell from your aura that you are a Pisces...". Worked like clockwork :P Thankfully, the statute of limitation is over...
I was always in good terms with US libraries and libarians :) During my wild years at school in the US, Maria -- a very cool librarian friend-- provided support to my devious conspiracies: she gave me, from her database, the date of birth of any chick that striked my fancy. This enabed me to nonchalantly walk up to them and say b.s. like "I can tell from your aura that you are a Pisces...". Worked like clockwork :P Thankfully, the statute of limitation is over...
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Ooo, Maria could've gotten in deep poop for doing that. :) This must've been a university library? Public libraries don't generally maintain date-of-birth records of their patrons.
Heheh, whenever anyone asks me my "sign", I tell 'em it's "No Trespassing". :)
-- Nanaea
Heheh, whenever anyone asks me my "sign", I tell 'em it's "No Trespassing". :)
-- Nanaea
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Yep. it was a University Library all right :)
Whenever one asks me my "sign", I tell them I intend to undergo a zodiac change operation, become a Virgo, and start afresh. MAybe thats why Daividh calls me "Preop".
Whenever one asks me my "sign", I tell them I intend to undergo a zodiac change operation, become a Virgo, and start afresh. MAybe thats why Daividh calls me "Preop".
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Apropos,
I've always wondered --
what did they do with the books after Maharishi International University shut down? Did they let you students keep any of 'em?
Or where DID you go to school over here? C'mon, tell us...
I've always wondered --
what did they do with the books after Maharishi International University shut down? Did they let you students keep any of 'em?
Or where DID you go to school over here? C'mon, tell us...
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My favorite Maharishi story is when the Beatles visited him and the old fart hit on their wives. The fab four were disenchanted. The good old Yogi may have been a master meditator, but he was no wanker.
Actually I did an MA at Georgetown and fooled around with a doctoral at George Washinton U. Nothing transcendental about that.
Actually I did an MA at Georgetown and fooled around with a doctoral at George Washinton U. Nothing transcendental about that.
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Religion and Politics
Organized religion can turn into politics so easily. Especially when people stop concerning themselves with the personal worship of their particular deity or deities, and instead decide to *govern* their neighbors by obliging them to worship (or at least "morally" behave) in the same manner they themselves do.
That's when religion turns into a political party. That's when religion turns ugly.
-- Nanaea
Organized religion can turn into politics so easily. Especially when people stop concerning themselves with the personal worship of their particular deity or deities, and instead decide to *govern* their neighbors by obliging them to worship (or at least "morally" behave) in the same manner they themselves do.
That's when religion turns into a political party. That's when religion turns ugly.
-- Nanaea
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