New Post
Search
Help
Archives"Delaney" is not an English name...Nor French!!!
From the "Annals of the History of Ireland" by the Four Masters:
"M878.20 (i.e. the year 878 AD or CE)
and Finn, son of Dubhslaine, lord of Ui Fidhgeinte, died."
also:
From the "Anglo-Saxon Chronicles":
"A.D. 891. This year went the army eastward; and King Arnulf
fought with the land-force, ere the ships arrived, in conjunction
with the eastern Franks, and Saxons, and Bavarians, and put them
to flight. And three Scots came to King Alfred in a boat without
any oars from Ireland; whence they stole away, because they would
live in a state of pilgrimage, for the love of God, they recked
not where. The boat in which they came was made of two hides and
a half; and they took with them provisions for seven nights; and
within seven nights they came to land in Cornwall, and soon after
went to King Alfred. They were thus named: Dubslane, and
Macbeth, and Maelinmun. And Swinney, the best teacher that was
among the Scots, departed this life. And the same year after
Easter, about the gang-days or before, appeared the star that men
in book-Latin call "cometa": some men say that in English it may
be termed "hairy star"; for that there standeth off from it a
long gleam of light, whilom on one side, whilom on each."
and:
Ms. H.1.15 Trinity College
"Cathal, son of Dubhslaine, son of Corcran, son of Corc, from whom the Ui Cuirc family, son of Artghail, son of Drohnall, son of Conall,
son of Snedhghus, son of Nadfraich, son of Colgan, son of Failbhe Flann." (Representing 6th and 7th centuries.)
"M878.20 (i.e. the year 878 AD or CE)
and Finn, son of Dubhslaine, lord of Ui Fidhgeinte, died."
also:
From the "Anglo-Saxon Chronicles":
"A.D. 891. This year went the army eastward; and King Arnulf
fought with the land-force, ere the ships arrived, in conjunction
with the eastern Franks, and Saxons, and Bavarians, and put them
to flight. And three Scots came to King Alfred in a boat without
any oars from Ireland; whence they stole away, because they would
live in a state of pilgrimage, for the love of God, they recked
not where. The boat in which they came was made of two hides and
a half; and they took with them provisions for seven nights; and
within seven nights they came to land in Cornwall, and soon after
went to King Alfred. They were thus named: Dubslane, and
Macbeth, and Maelinmun. And Swinney, the best teacher that was
among the Scots, departed this life. And the same year after
Easter, about the gang-days or before, appeared the star that men
in book-Latin call "cometa": some men say that in English it may
be termed "hairy star"; for that there standeth off from it a
long gleam of light, whilom on one side, whilom on each."
and:
Ms. H.1.15 Trinity College
"Cathal, son of Dubhslaine, son of Corcran, son of Corc, from whom the Ui Cuirc family, son of Artghail, son of Drohnall, son of Conall,
son of Snedhghus, son of Nadfraich, son of Colgan, son of Failbhe Flann." (Representing 6th and 7th centuries.)
This message was edited 11/28/2006, 10:09 AM
1
Replies
Delaney is originally a Norman French surname based on the French phrase del aunie, "from the alder grove." This Norman French surname became an Irish surname when it was used to Anglicize the Gaelic family name O Duibhslaine. In terms of surnames, Delaney is therefore BOTH a Norman French and English surname, and an Irish surname.
There are many other Irish surnames which have similar histories to Delaney, where a Norman French or English name was used to "Anglicize" a Gaelic name, and so there are a great many names which have separate but equally legitimate derivations as both English and Irish family names. A few others that start with D and that are found in Hanks & Hodges's A Dictionary of Surnames include Darby, Darcy, Dennis, Denny, Dillon, Diver, Dockray, Dodd, Doran, Dore, Dormer, Dove, Drane, Drew, Dunn, and Dyer.
There are many other Irish surnames which have similar histories to Delaney, where a Norman French or English name was used to "Anglicize" a Gaelic name, and so there are a great many names which have separate but equally legitimate derivations as both English and Irish family names. A few others that start with D and that are found in Hanks & Hodges's A Dictionary of Surnames include Darby, Darcy, Dennis, Denny, Dillon, Diver, Dockray, Dodd, Doran, Dore, Dormer, Dove, Drane, Drew, Dunn, and Dyer.
1
http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlkik/history/ossory.htm
If they want to be French let them eat cake.
If they want to be French let them eat cake.
1
Thank you for that, Mr. Evans. You are beginning
to understand the real issue here.
to understand the real issue here.
1
They can be purely Irish, but the Delaney form is Norman. Another thing is the Dubhslaine/Dubslaine form.
Lumia
http://onomastica.mailcatala.com
Lumia
http://onomastica.mailcatala.com
1
Delaney is not Dubhslaine/Dubslaine. Perhaps Delaney has been used in some time to Anglicize Dubhslaine, but it is not related.
Lumia
http://onomastica.mailcatala.com
Lumia
http://onomastica.mailcatala.com
1
Donnchadh macGilla Pátraic macDonnchada, a descendant the infamous king Cearbhall macDúngaile, became powerful enough to claim the kingship of the province of Leinster (a "greater part of" southeast Ireland) for a short time during 1030's. Shortly after this point, about 1041, we find a notice in the Annals of the Four Masters that Muircheartach mac Gilla Pátraic, a brother of the aforementioned Donnchadh, and a lord of half Osraighe, was slain by the Ui Caelluidhe (the O'Kealys of Magh Lacha). In Upper Ossory, in what is now part of County Laois, the Ui Caollaidhe (the O'Kealys) were able to exert an independent rule over both their own territory and that of the Ua hUrachan (the O'Horahans of Uí Foircheallain) and the Ua Dubhslaine (O'Delany's of Coill Uachtarach). Finn O'Caellaide is mentioned as a lord of Ossory on his death notice in 1098, and he is cited as marrying a grand-daughter of Gilla Pátraic macDonnchada (d. 996). After the death of Giolla Pháttraicc Ruadh, a king of Ossory, in 1103, it appears that a junior branch of the Mac Giolla Phádraigs were able to lay claim to the southern-most part of Osraige, aka Deascairt Osraighe (under Cerball macDomnaill), while the main branch appear to have maintained their hold in the large middle portion of the kingdom (possibly the northern two-thirds of modern County Kilkenny).
http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlkik/history/ossory.htm
http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlkik/history/ossory.htm
1
So?
The surname Delaney IS from Norman origin. The use or not to Anglicize a legit Irish surname doesn't change the etymology of the surname.
A lot of information about Irish history, but nothing about a phylological explanation to justify the Celtic linguistic origin of the form Delaney (basically its linguistic evolution from Dubhslaine).
Your information and links only show that:
1) Dubhslaine is a historical Irish surname and name
2) and that it had been matched with the Norman surname Delaney to Anglicize it (as a lot of other Irish names and surnames which had been matched with non-related English names and surnames).
Lumia
http://onomastica.mailcatala.com
The surname Delaney IS from Norman origin. The use or not to Anglicize a legit Irish surname doesn't change the etymology of the surname.
A lot of information about Irish history, but nothing about a phylological explanation to justify the Celtic linguistic origin of the form Delaney (basically its linguistic evolution from Dubhslaine).
Your information and links only show that:
1) Dubhslaine is a historical Irish surname and name
2) and that it had been matched with the Norman surname Delaney to Anglicize it (as a lot of other Irish names and surnames which had been matched with non-related English names and surnames).
Lumia
http://onomastica.mailcatala.com
1
Brian Friel's effort to show how language and
attitude colors our thoughts and actions:
www.culturevulture.net/Theater/Translations.htm
attitude colors our thoughts and actions:
www.culturevulture.net/Theater/Translations.htm
1