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ArchivesRe: Stop spreading disinformation Pavlos!
in reply to a message by Pavlos
Wrong Pavlos.
Ali Pasha Monastery of Pandelimonos (near Janine) the Lion of Janina, was born to a powerful clan from Tepelenë (in modern Albani) and spent much of his youth as a bandit. He rose to become governor of the Ottoman) province of Rumelia which included Albania, Romania, and Thrace, before establishing himself in Janina Like Kara Mahmud Bushati, Ali Pasha wanted to create an autonomous state under his rule. When Ali Pasha forged links with the Greek revolutionaries, Sultan Mahmud II decided to destroy him. The sultan first discharged the Albanian from his official posts and recalled him to Constatineopel(Istanbul). Ali Pasha refused and put up a formidable resistance that Britain's Lord Byron immortalized in poems and letters. In January 1822 however, Ottoman agents assassinated Ali Pasha and sent his head to Constantinople. Nevertheless, it took eight more years before the Sublime Porte would move against Mustafa Pasha Bushati. The sultan sent an Ottoman general to Bitola (then called Monastir, in Macedonia), where he invited 1,000 Muslim Albanian leaders to meet him, and in August 1830 Reshid Pasha had about 500 of the Albanian leaders killed. He then turned on Mustafa Pasha, who surrendered and spent the rest of his life as an official in Constantinopel.
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Ali%20Pasha
ALI, known as ALI PASHA (1741-1822), Turkish pasha of lannina, surnamed Arslan, " the Lion," was born at Tepeleni, a village in Albania at the foot of the Klissura mountains. He was one of the Toske tribe, and his ancestors had for some time held the hereditary office of bey of Tepeleni.
http://23.1911encyclopedia.org/A/AL/ALI.htm
Ali Pasha was an ambitious local ruler of Greek-Albanian background (His father was from Tepeleni, Albania and his mother from Konitsa, Greece).
http://www.virtualtourist.com/m/24ea9/67a86/
Turhan Pasha Përmeti
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Turhan%20Pasha%20P%EBrmeti
Essad Pasha
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Essad%20Pasha
(toskë, llap, cham, geg is Albanian groups.)
We Albanians don't call South Albania for North Epirus, greeks does that. We albanians call North West Greece for Chameria because an albanian group call Cham lives their. Epirus derived from greek Ipiros "mainland" and was given by the greek people from Corfu. The town of Tepelena (also. TEPELENI) in southern Albania, It's close to Gjirokastra.
MAP. http://www.ipls.org/services/maps/alb-map.gif
we call him for Ali Pashë Tepelenë. Pashë means saw in albanian.
www.argjiro.net/fjalor dictionary.
Ali Pasha Monastery of Pandelimonos (near Janine) the Lion of Janina, was born to a powerful clan from Tepelenë (in modern Albani) and spent much of his youth as a bandit. He rose to become governor of the Ottoman) province of Rumelia which included Albania, Romania, and Thrace, before establishing himself in Janina Like Kara Mahmud Bushati, Ali Pasha wanted to create an autonomous state under his rule. When Ali Pasha forged links with the Greek revolutionaries, Sultan Mahmud II decided to destroy him. The sultan first discharged the Albanian from his official posts and recalled him to Constatineopel(Istanbul). Ali Pasha refused and put up a formidable resistance that Britain's Lord Byron immortalized in poems and letters. In January 1822 however, Ottoman agents assassinated Ali Pasha and sent his head to Constantinople. Nevertheless, it took eight more years before the Sublime Porte would move against Mustafa Pasha Bushati. The sultan sent an Ottoman general to Bitola (then called Monastir, in Macedonia), where he invited 1,000 Muslim Albanian leaders to meet him, and in August 1830 Reshid Pasha had about 500 of the Albanian leaders killed. He then turned on Mustafa Pasha, who surrendered and spent the rest of his life as an official in Constantinopel.
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Ali%20Pasha
ALI, known as ALI PASHA (1741-1822), Turkish pasha of lannina, surnamed Arslan, " the Lion," was born at Tepeleni, a village in Albania at the foot of the Klissura mountains. He was one of the Toske tribe, and his ancestors had for some time held the hereditary office of bey of Tepeleni.
http://23.1911encyclopedia.org/A/AL/ALI.htm
Ali Pasha was an ambitious local ruler of Greek-Albanian background (His father was from Tepeleni, Albania and his mother from Konitsa, Greece).
http://www.virtualtourist.com/m/24ea9/67a86/
Turhan Pasha Përmeti
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Turhan%20Pasha%20P%EBrmeti
Essad Pasha
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Essad%20Pasha
(toskë, llap, cham, geg is Albanian groups.)
We Albanians don't call South Albania for North Epirus, greeks does that. We albanians call North West Greece for Chameria because an albanian group call Cham lives their. Epirus derived from greek Ipiros "mainland" and was given by the greek people from Corfu. The town of Tepelena (also. TEPELENI) in southern Albania, It's close to Gjirokastra.
MAP. http://www.ipls.org/services/maps/alb-map.gif
we call him for Ali Pashë Tepelenë. Pashë means saw in albanian.
www.argjiro.net/fjalor dictionary.
1
Replies
In your original post you assert the following:
1) That "pasha" was not Ali's title (as Ottoman governor), but instead that "pasha" was his *albanish* middle name meaning saw -- I wonder, were all the other Pashas you mention only by coincidence military governors but in fact had names derived for the *albanish* word for "saw"? :)
2) That "Tepelena" was his surname, whereas in fact it was the town in northern Epirus where he was born.
3) That Ali Pasha was Albanian, whereas he was an Ottoman Turk.
I quote from *The Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia, 6th ed. © 2003, Columbia University Press*:
"Ali Pasha , 1744?–1822, Turkish pasha [military governor] of Yannina (now Ioánnina, Greece), a province of the Ottoman Empire (Turkey)".
And with all due respect, I will take the definition of Columbia University over yours *sans voire*.
CONCLUSION: Nothing in the stuff you quoted supports your above assertions...so please stop insulting our intelligence with such ndyrësirë...
1) That "pasha" was not Ali's title (as Ottoman governor), but instead that "pasha" was his *albanish* middle name meaning saw -- I wonder, were all the other Pashas you mention only by coincidence military governors but in fact had names derived for the *albanish* word for "saw"? :)
2) That "Tepelena" was his surname, whereas in fact it was the town in northern Epirus where he was born.
3) That Ali Pasha was Albanian, whereas he was an Ottoman Turk.
I quote from *The Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia, 6th ed. © 2003, Columbia University Press*:
"Ali Pasha , 1744?–1822, Turkish pasha [military governor] of Yannina (now Ioánnina, Greece), a province of the Ottoman Empire (Turkey)".
And with all due respect, I will take the definition of Columbia University over yours *sans voire*.
CONCLUSION: Nothing in the stuff you quoted supports your above assertions...so please stop insulting our intelligence with such ndyrësirë...
1
born 1744, Tepelenë, Albania, Ottoman Empire
died February 5 [Jan. 24, Old Style], 1822, Janina, Ottoman Empire [now Ioánnina, Gr.]
byname Lion of Janina Albanian brigand who, by murder and intrigue, became pasha, or provincial governor, of Janina from 1788. He extended his capricious rule within the Ottoman Empire over much of Albania and Macedonia, Epirus, Thessaly, and the Morea.
His father, Veli, bey of Tepelenë, died a poor man…
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=5797&tocid=0&query=ali%20pasha%20tepelena&ct=
died February 5 [Jan. 24, Old Style], 1822, Janina, Ottoman Empire [now Ioánnina, Gr.]
byname Lion of Janina Albanian brigand who, by murder and intrigue, became pasha, or provincial governor, of Janina from 1788. He extended his capricious rule within the Ottoman Empire over much of Albania and Macedonia, Epirus, Thessaly, and the Morea.
His father, Veli, bey of Tepelenë, died a poor man…
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=5797&tocid=0&query=ali%20pasha%20tepelena&ct=
1
Thanks for supporting my argument, Constantin/Kassandri/BibleRiot!
"..by murder and intrigue, BECAME PASHA, OR PROVINCIAL GOVERNOR, of Janina".
So he *became* a PASHA, his "middle name" was not the "albanish" "pasha" meaning "saw" as you erroneously claim. And my whole argument was that PASHA was his title not his name!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As for Ali's nationality: Ali lived at a time before "nationalism" was born. At the time, religious identity was the determining factor rather than "national" identity. This is why all Moslems in the Empire identified with the Ottoman Turks, whereas all Christians (Greeks, Slavs, some Albanians etc) called themselves *Romioi*, i.e., descendants of the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium).
So whether he was Albanian, Turkish or Eskimo for that matter meant nothing at the time: he was a Moslem Ottoman.
Nationalism along the lines of "Greek, Albanian, etc" was fostered much later, and signalled the end of the Ottoman empire.
"..by murder and intrigue, BECAME PASHA, OR PROVINCIAL GOVERNOR, of Janina".
So he *became* a PASHA, his "middle name" was not the "albanish" "pasha" meaning "saw" as you erroneously claim. And my whole argument was that PASHA was his title not his name!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As for Ali's nationality: Ali lived at a time before "nationalism" was born. At the time, religious identity was the determining factor rather than "national" identity. This is why all Moslems in the Empire identified with the Ottoman Turks, whereas all Christians (Greeks, Slavs, some Albanians etc) called themselves *Romioi*, i.e., descendants of the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium).
So whether he was Albanian, Turkish or Eskimo for that matter meant nothing at the time: he was a Moslem Ottoman.
Nationalism along the lines of "Greek, Albanian, etc" was fostered much later, and signalled the end of the Ottoman empire.
1