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ArchivesWe should really close the topic, but here goes:
in reply to a message by Ivayla
2:244 And fight in the way of Allah, and know that Allah is Hearing, Knowing.
Fight for what? Against who? Simply "fight" does not mean "kill infidels."
As I said before, indoubtedly there will be zealots (of all religions) who will INTERPRET that to mean "kill Christians/Jews/Israelis/unmarried girls who show their face in public," etc, but that is not the Koran's fault.
9:29 Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
Again: fight does not mean "kill." "Those who have been given the Book" are the Christians and the Jews, and they are obviously exempt. The rest should also be fought until they start diligently paying taxes and mind their own business (which means they should preferrably stay alive and well, so they can work).
47:4 So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.
The key words: meet in battle. Also, "make them prisoners" and either "set them free" or "let them ransom themselves" implies they have to be alive.
So, where is the ~chant~ "kill the infidels!" ~chant~ part?
Fight for what? Against who? Simply "fight" does not mean "kill infidels."
As I said before, indoubtedly there will be zealots (of all religions) who will INTERPRET that to mean "kill Christians/Jews/Israelis/unmarried girls who show their face in public," etc, but that is not the Koran's fault.
9:29 Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
Again: fight does not mean "kill." "Those who have been given the Book" are the Christians and the Jews, and they are obviously exempt. The rest should also be fought until they start diligently paying taxes and mind their own business (which means they should preferrably stay alive and well, so they can work).
47:4 So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.
The key words: meet in battle. Also, "make them prisoners" and either "set them free" or "let them ransom themselves" implies they have to be alive.
So, where is the ~chant~ "kill the infidels!" ~chant~ part?
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Replies
One more...
"God does not forbid you to be kind and equitable to those who have neither fought against your faith nor driven you out of your homes. In fact God loves the equitable."
Quoted from the Qur’an, 60:8
-- Nanaea
"God does not forbid you to be kind and equitable to those who have neither fought against your faith nor driven you out of your homes. In fact God loves the equitable."
Quoted from the Qur’an, 60:8
-- Nanaea
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Closing...
OK, some of those I didn't read close enough, my mom was getting impatient. However, in the translation I looked up at the library, there were notes on almost all of those, like after "those who do not believe in Allah..." they added, "(Jews and Christians)". Maybe not after that particular phrase, but one pretty similar. Anyway, fight certainly does imply kill at least some of 'em. Well, I'll wind it up now.
Y :)
Off-topic P.S.: We got leetle baby chicks! Ten of them!! :D :D :D
OK, some of those I didn't read close enough, my mom was getting impatient. However, in the translation I looked up at the library, there were notes on almost all of those, like after "those who do not believe in Allah..." they added, "(Jews and Christians)". Maybe not after that particular phrase, but one pretty similar. Anyway, fight certainly does imply kill at least some of 'em. Well, I'll wind it up now.
Y :)
Off-topic P.S.: We got leetle baby chicks! Ten of them!! :D :D :D
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That's why the Qu'ran is not supposed to be translated from Arabic :).
Congrats for the chicks!
Congrats for the chicks!
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Well, you get props for going to your public library to find out things on your own. :)
I dunno if you might have occasion to encounter many (or any) Muslims out there in Oregon (?) and perhaps learn firsthand what they do and do not believe in. But perhaps when you go off to college you may. You appear to be a bright girl with an inquisitive mind -- I expect your views may change with time.
Congratulations on the baby chicks. :)
-- Nanaea
I dunno if you might have occasion to encounter many (or any) Muslims out there in Oregon (?) and perhaps learn firsthand what they do and do not believe in. But perhaps when you go off to college you may. You appear to be a bright girl with an inquisitive mind -- I expect your views may change with time.
Congratulations on the baby chicks. :)
-- Nanaea
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