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ArchivesRe: derivation of Melanie
in reply to a message by musician
I doubt very much if Melanie Wilkes in "Gone With the Wind" was named "black".
Don't mean to be picky, but why not? I don't remember anything "red" that goes with Cathy Scarlett O'Hara. Besides, the name was already in use, so the author might have just picked it without any reference to its meaning.
Btw, it happens that when a foreign name is introduced in a culture, people tend to translate/derive it from their own language. An example I have in mind: the Greek name Tycho ("hitting the mark") is commonly perceived in Bulgaria to mean "quiet" from the Bulgarian "tih" (pronounced the same way as "tych"). So, the French-speaking people might very well believe that Melanie comes from "mel." Is the book you read French?
Don't mean to be picky, but why not? I don't remember anything "red" that goes with Cathy Scarlett O'Hara. Besides, the name was already in use, so the author might have just picked it without any reference to its meaning.
Btw, it happens that when a foreign name is introduced in a culture, people tend to translate/derive it from their own language. An example I have in mind: the Greek name Tycho ("hitting the mark") is commonly perceived in Bulgaria to mean "quiet" from the Bulgarian "tih" (pronounced the same way as "tych"). So, the French-speaking people might very well believe that Melanie comes from "mel." Is the book you read French?
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Replies
name/color symbolism
Actually, it was "Katie Scarlett O'Hara".
Off the top of my head, I can think of four reasons the aforementioned character was named Scarlett (and I'm sure others can come up with a dozen more).
Red is the color most often associated with passion.
Red is associated with scandal.
Red is the color of the land/dirt in Georgia that the character finally learns to value.
Red is the color of blood, and by association: women and war. Certainly, Scarlett was a woman at war... with the Yankees, cultural and societal morals, other women and perhaps most of all, herself.
Actually, it was "Katie Scarlett O'Hara".
Off the top of my head, I can think of four reasons the aforementioned character was named Scarlett (and I'm sure others can come up with a dozen more).
Red is the color most often associated with passion.
Red is associated with scandal.
Red is the color of the land/dirt in Georgia that the character finally learns to value.
Red is the color of blood, and by association: women and war. Certainly, Scarlett was a woman at war... with the Yankees, cultural and societal morals, other women and perhaps most of all, herself.
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my bad
OK, I admit it makes sense.
I was pretty sure that in the very beginning Melanie was described as "colorless" (and I in my copy - she was). I have only read the book in Bulgarian, though so it might have not been translated properly. For example the translator transcribed Katie as Cathy in Cyrillic :(.
OK, I admit it makes sense.
I was pretty sure that in the very beginning Melanie was described as "colorless" (and I in my copy - she was). I have only read the book in Bulgarian, though so it might have not been translated properly. For example the translator transcribed Katie as Cathy in Cyrillic :(.
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Origin of Katie Scarlett O'Hara's middle name
Those were great symbolic meanings which you gave, Genis, and perhaps the author had some -- or all -- of those in mind when she named her character.
In the novel, the origin of the character's middle name is given as having been a family surname in Ireland. And the surname Scarlett, though associated with the color, is more specifically an occupational name for a dyer or seller of bright fabrics. (*A Dictionary of Surnames* by Hanks & Hodges)
Just a bit of Gone with the Wind trivia... Author Margaret Mitchell orignally planned to name her character "Pansy O'Hara". Fortunately, her editor didn't like that name and asked her to change it.
-- Nanaea
Those were great symbolic meanings which you gave, Genis, and perhaps the author had some -- or all -- of those in mind when she named her character.
In the novel, the origin of the character's middle name is given as having been a family surname in Ireland. And the surname Scarlett, though associated with the color, is more specifically an occupational name for a dyer or seller of bright fabrics. (*A Dictionary of Surnames* by Hanks & Hodges)
Just a bit of Gone with the Wind trivia... Author Margaret Mitchell orignally planned to name her character "Pansy O'Hara". Fortunately, her editor didn't like that name and asked her to change it.
-- Nanaea
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middle name
The edition I have is the 1939 hardback (with color stills from the movie) foolishly handed down from my mother when I was a eight (I ruined the spine). The text mentions that the character is named for her paternal grandmother. Not a specific surname reference, but it would certainly make sense.
As for Pansy, I wondered before what the logic was behind that choice. The colors? Cold-hardiness? General adaptability? Editors, those cold-hearted scumbag types, how I love them.
The edition I have is the 1939 hardback (with color stills from the movie) foolishly handed down from my mother when I was a eight (I ruined the spine). The text mentions that the character is named for her paternal grandmother. Not a specific surname reference, but it would certainly make sense.
As for Pansy, I wondered before what the logic was behind that choice. The colors? Cold-hardiness? General adaptability? Editors, those cold-hearted scumbag types, how I love them.
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Black honey :)
OK here's the strait dope on the black/honey controversy!
- The Greek word for black/dark is "melas" (male) and "melaina or melane" (female). This has generated the name "Melaina" and "Melane", which most definitely are the ancestors of Melanie.
- The Greek word for honey is "meli". It has generated several names, including Melina, Melinna, Melissa, Melita, Melite, Melitine and Melito.
I really enjoyed the theory about Scarlett vs Melanie symbolism, its really cool :) This interpretation really holds water! I personally prefer the beautiful and dignified Melanie to the cocky and obnoxious Scarlett, even though I generally dont care much for martyrs.
OK here's the strait dope on the black/honey controversy!
- The Greek word for black/dark is "melas" (male) and "melaina or melane" (female). This has generated the name "Melaina" and "Melane", which most definitely are the ancestors of Melanie.
- The Greek word for honey is "meli". It has generated several names, including Melina, Melinna, Melissa, Melita, Melite, Melitine and Melito.
I really enjoyed the theory about Scarlett vs Melanie symbolism, its really cool :) This interpretation really holds water! I personally prefer the beautiful and dignified Melanie to the cocky and obnoxious Scarlett, even though I generally dont care much for martyrs.
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I must admit, I first liked Melanie because I was laughing at her misinterpretations. Then I just preferred her to Scarlett because, well, she was nicer. Beauty and dignity do not win me over. :D
But I digress. Genis could be right about Melanie, or maybe Margaret Mitchell thought the name came from "honey." Honey definitely works for Melanie, symbolically (clingy and sweet).
But I digress. Genis could be right about Melanie, or maybe Margaret Mitchell thought the name came from "honey." Honey definitely works for Melanie, symbolically (clingy and sweet).
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