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in reply to a message by BibleRiot
Constantin/Kassandri/Miranda/BibleRiot, if you want to earn the respect of this community, please stop spreading disinformation!
You mention that "Pasha" is a "middle name" of Ali Pasha Tepelena!
=> First of all, "Tepelena" is *not* a surname, it is the name of Tepeleni, a town in northern Epirus where Ali was born.
=> Ali was a Turkish Pasha (military governor).
=> His "middle name" was not Pasha, and he was not Albanian.
As a historical sidenote, Ali was appointed by the Turks Pasha (military governor) to Trikala in 1787 (presently a Greek town) but eventually seized power in Ioannina (presently in Epirus, Greece). At the height of his power, he ruled Epirus, Aitoloakarnania and half of the modern Albania (i.e. an area with a population of about 1,500,000). His renegade tactics and secessionist ambitions upset his fellow Ottoman rulers, who eventually defeated him militarily and killed him in battle.
You mention that "Pasha" is a "middle name" of Ali Pasha Tepelena!
=> First of all, "Tepelena" is *not* a surname, it is the name of Tepeleni, a town in northern Epirus where Ali was born.
=> Ali was a Turkish Pasha (military governor).
=> His "middle name" was not Pasha, and he was not Albanian.
As a historical sidenote, Ali was appointed by the Turks Pasha (military governor) to Trikala in 1787 (presently a Greek town) but eventually seized power in Ioannina (presently in Epirus, Greece). At the height of his power, he ruled Epirus, Aitoloakarnania and half of the modern Albania (i.e. an area with a population of about 1,500,000). His renegade tactics and secessionist ambitions upset his fellow Ottoman rulers, who eventually defeated him militarily and killed him in battle.
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Replies
Wrong Pavlos.
Ali Pasha Monastery of Pandelimonos (near Janine) the Lion of Janina, was born to a powerful clan from Tepelenë (in modern Albani) and spent much of his youth as a bandit. He rose to become governor of the Ottoman) province of Rumelia which included Albania, Romania, and Thrace, before establishing himself in Janina Like Kara Mahmud Bushati, Ali Pasha wanted to create an autonomous state under his rule. When Ali Pasha forged links with the Greek revolutionaries, Sultan Mahmud II decided to destroy him. The sultan first discharged the Albanian from his official posts and recalled him to Constatineopel(Istanbul). Ali Pasha refused and put up a formidable resistance that Britain's Lord Byron immortalized in poems and letters. In January 1822 however, Ottoman agents assassinated Ali Pasha and sent his head to Constantinople. Nevertheless, it took eight more years before the Sublime Porte would move against Mustafa Pasha Bushati. The sultan sent an Ottoman general to Bitola (then called Monastir, in Macedonia), where he invited 1,000 Muslim Albanian leaders to meet him, and in August 1830 Reshid Pasha had about 500 of the Albanian leaders killed. He then turned on Mustafa Pasha, who surrendered and spent the rest of his life as an official in Constantinopel.
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Ali%20Pasha
Ali Pasha Monastery of Pandelimonos (near Janine) the Lion of Janina, was born to a powerful clan from Tepelenë (in modern Albani) and spent much of his youth as a bandit. He rose to become governor of the Ottoman) province of Rumelia which included Albania, Romania, and Thrace, before establishing himself in Janina Like Kara Mahmud Bushati, Ali Pasha wanted to create an autonomous state under his rule. When Ali Pasha forged links with the Greek revolutionaries, Sultan Mahmud II decided to destroy him. The sultan first discharged the Albanian from his official posts and recalled him to Constatineopel(Istanbul). Ali Pasha refused and put up a formidable resistance that Britain's Lord Byron immortalized in poems and letters. In January 1822 however, Ottoman agents assassinated Ali Pasha and sent his head to Constantinople. Nevertheless, it took eight more years before the Sublime Porte would move against Mustafa Pasha Bushati. The sultan sent an Ottoman general to Bitola (then called Monastir, in Macedonia), where he invited 1,000 Muslim Albanian leaders to meet him, and in August 1830 Reshid Pasha had about 500 of the Albanian leaders killed. He then turned on Mustafa Pasha, who surrendered and spent the rest of his life as an official in Constantinopel.
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Ali%20Pasha
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In your original post you assert the following:
1) That "pasha" was not Ali's title (as Ottoman governor), but instead that "pasha" was his *albanish* middle name meaning saw -- I wonder, were all the other Pashas you mention only by coincidence military governors but in fact had names derived for the *albanish* word for "saw"? :)
2) That "Tepelena" was his surname, whereas in fact it was the town in northern Epirus where he was born.
3) That Ali Pasha was Albanian, whereas he was an Ottoman Turk.
I quote from *The Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia, 6th ed. © 2003, Columbia University Press*:
"Ali Pasha , 1744?–1822, Turkish pasha [military governor] of Yannina (now Ioánnina, Greece), a province of the Ottoman Empire (Turkey)".
And with all due respect, I will take the definition of Columbia University over yours *sans voire*.
CONCLUSION: Nothing in the stuff you quoted supports your above assertions...so please stop insulting our intelligence with such ndyrësirë...
1) That "pasha" was not Ali's title (as Ottoman governor), but instead that "pasha" was his *albanish* middle name meaning saw -- I wonder, were all the other Pashas you mention only by coincidence military governors but in fact had names derived for the *albanish* word for "saw"? :)
2) That "Tepelena" was his surname, whereas in fact it was the town in northern Epirus where he was born.
3) That Ali Pasha was Albanian, whereas he was an Ottoman Turk.
I quote from *The Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia, 6th ed. © 2003, Columbia University Press*:
"Ali Pasha , 1744?–1822, Turkish pasha [military governor] of Yannina (now Ioánnina, Greece), a province of the Ottoman Empire (Turkey)".
And with all due respect, I will take the definition of Columbia University over yours *sans voire*.
CONCLUSION: Nothing in the stuff you quoted supports your above assertions...so please stop insulting our intelligence with such ndyrësirë...
1
born 1744, Tepelenë, Albania, Ottoman Empire
died February 5 [Jan. 24, Old Style], 1822, Janina, Ottoman Empire [now Ioánnina, Gr.]
byname Lion of Janina Albanian brigand who, by murder and intrigue, became pasha, or provincial governor, of Janina from 1788. He extended his capricious rule within the Ottoman Empire over much of Albania and Macedonia, Epirus, Thessaly, and the Morea.
His father, Veli, bey of Tepelenë, died a poor man…
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=5797&tocid=0&query=ali%20pasha%20tepelena&ct=
died February 5 [Jan. 24, Old Style], 1822, Janina, Ottoman Empire [now Ioánnina, Gr.]
byname Lion of Janina Albanian brigand who, by murder and intrigue, became pasha, or provincial governor, of Janina from 1788. He extended his capricious rule within the Ottoman Empire over much of Albania and Macedonia, Epirus, Thessaly, and the Morea.
His father, Veli, bey of Tepelenë, died a poor man…
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=5797&tocid=0&query=ali%20pasha%20tepelena&ct=
1
Thanks for supporting my argument, Constantin/Kassandri/BibleRiot!
"..by murder and intrigue, BECAME PASHA, OR PROVINCIAL GOVERNOR, of Janina".
So he *became* a PASHA, his "middle name" was not the "albanish" "pasha" meaning "saw" as you erroneously claim. And my whole argument was that PASHA was his title not his name!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As for Ali's nationality: Ali lived at a time before "nationalism" was born. At the time, religious identity was the determining factor rather than "national" identity. This is why all Moslems in the Empire identified with the Ottoman Turks, whereas all Christians (Greeks, Slavs, some Albanians etc) called themselves *Romioi*, i.e., descendants of the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium).
So whether he was Albanian, Turkish or Eskimo for that matter meant nothing at the time: he was a Moslem Ottoman.
Nationalism along the lines of "Greek, Albanian, etc" was fostered much later, and signalled the end of the Ottoman empire.
"..by murder and intrigue, BECAME PASHA, OR PROVINCIAL GOVERNOR, of Janina".
So he *became* a PASHA, his "middle name" was not the "albanish" "pasha" meaning "saw" as you erroneously claim. And my whole argument was that PASHA was his title not his name!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As for Ali's nationality: Ali lived at a time before "nationalism" was born. At the time, religious identity was the determining factor rather than "national" identity. This is why all Moslems in the Empire identified with the Ottoman Turks, whereas all Christians (Greeks, Slavs, some Albanians etc) called themselves *Romioi*, i.e., descendants of the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium).
So whether he was Albanian, Turkish or Eskimo for that matter meant nothing at the time: he was a Moslem Ottoman.
Nationalism along the lines of "Greek, Albanian, etc" was fostered much later, and signalled the end of the Ottoman empire.
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