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ArchivesRe: Yes...
in reply to a message by Ivayla
Most Spanish dialects? I only heard it pronounced as a "j" in Spain, Madrid to be exact...
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How does what you are saying disprove the 'most Spanish dialects' part? Are you trying to say that the Spanish spoken in Madrid is the same as Spanish spoken elsewhere and there are no variations? Or are you saying that they speak like that in Madrid only? Or...? I am no expert on proper castellano, but people in Latin America, except in Argentina and Uruguay, do say 'j' when it's written 'y'.
Also, check this from the archives:
http://www.behindthename.com/bb/arcview.php?id=33454&board=gen
Also, check this from the archives:
http://www.behindthename.com/bb/arcview.php?id=33454&board=gen
This message was edited 9/25/2007, 10:12 AM
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Spanish pronunciation of Y and J
In Spanish, the Y is pronounced as [y], as the Y of yes in English (vaya, maya, raya...) excepted the area of Río de la Plata (Uruguay and Argentina), where it is pronounced as [J], the French J (jour), in the most traditional form or as [S], the SH of shame in English. I don't know an English word where the J represents the sound [y]; in Basque and some other languages, J represents this sound, but not in English, I think.
The Spanish LL has its own sound, but most of speakers and dialects have assimilated it to Y (in Río de la Plata sounds, then, as English SH).
In the other hand, the J is always pronounced as [x] (KH in English), that is the general pronunciation, or in some areas of America as [h] (the English H), which is a dialectal pronunciation: mujer, jamón, Jaime...
The problem with misspellings J/G/Y in names or wrods from English origin is because the English J has a sound completely inexistent in Spanish; so many Spanish speakers try to pronounce it (and then they spell it with Y) with the most near sound in their phonological system, and that is the [y].
In Spanish, the Y is pronounced as [y], as the Y of yes in English (vaya, maya, raya...) excepted the area of Río de la Plata (Uruguay and Argentina), where it is pronounced as [J], the French J (jour), in the most traditional form or as [S], the SH of shame in English. I don't know an English word where the J represents the sound [y]; in Basque and some other languages, J represents this sound, but not in English, I think.
The Spanish LL has its own sound, but most of speakers and dialects have assimilated it to Y (in Río de la Plata sounds, then, as English SH).
In the other hand, the J is always pronounced as [x] (KH in English), that is the general pronunciation, or in some areas of America as [h] (the English H), which is a dialectal pronunciation: mujer, jamón, Jaime...
The problem with misspellings J/G/Y in names or wrods from English origin is because the English J has a sound completely inexistent in Spanish; so many Spanish speakers try to pronounce it (and then they spell it with Y) with the most near sound in their phonological system, and that is the [y].
This message was edited 9/25/2007, 3:02 AM
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Thank you, Lumia
I was hoping you'd show up for this one.
To put the pronunciation issue in layman's terms: I have some Colombian friends, and their [y] sounds to me more like 'dye' (not the English word but the sound). For example, when they say 'yo' it sounds like a mix of 'dyo' and 'jo'. It's not the exact same sound as 'j' but it's pretty close. Are we talking about the same sound?
I was hoping you'd show up for this one.
To put the pronunciation issue in layman's terms: I have some Colombian friends, and their [y] sounds to me more like 'dye' (not the English word but the sound). For example, when they say 'yo' it sounds like a mix of 'dyo' and 'jo'. It's not the exact same sound as 'j' but it's pretty close. Are we talking about the same sound?
This message was edited 9/25/2007, 2:25 PM
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Probably we are, but keep in mind that in every language a phoneme has/could have several allophones and that sounds and phonemes in different languages are not exactly identical (because of the secondary features, which are the responsibles of sounding or not as a native speaker of a language or of a specific dialect).
It could be a dialectal pronunciation (just as in Rioplatense Spanish the pronunciation of Y as French J, as English J or even as English SH/French CH), for instance in the beginning of the word, because in some dialects some sounds could have a plosive support, but I don't have information about that articulation in Colombia or in Mesoamerica -maybe Profe Esteban could help in that.
It could be a dialectal pronunciation (just as in Rioplatense Spanish the pronunciation of Y as French J, as English J or even as English SH/French CH), for instance in the beginning of the word, because in some dialects some sounds could have a plosive support, but I don't have information about that articulation in Colombia or in Mesoamerica -maybe Profe Esteban could help in that.
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