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Helpsince you asked politely ..
in reply to a message by Barbra
Drag Race refers to Ru-Paul's Drag Race, which is kind of a beauty/talent competition for drag queens/transvestites. American TV show. Nothing racial about it. The show is pretty popular; I think Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi was recently a judge on the show.
I only ever watched a couple episodes when it first started, quite a few years ago, so I don't know if it's changed much, but as I recall the performers were very over the top and glam in their clothing and makeup and mannerisms, many being outright stereotypical. I have no idea how many, if any, hwere called Kimmie but Kimmie just feels like a stereotypical drag queen stage name. Maybe there's a famous one in the past using that name and somehow it has seeped into my perception of the name, I don't know.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts. -- Daniel Patrick Moynihan
I only ever watched a couple episodes when it first started, quite a few years ago, so I don't know if it's changed much, but as I recall the performers were very over the top and glam in their clothing and makeup and mannerisms, many being outright stereotypical. I have no idea how many, if any, hwere called Kimmie but Kimmie just feels like a stereotypical drag queen stage name. Maybe there's a famous one in the past using that name and somehow it has seeped into my perception of the name, I don't know.
You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts. -- Daniel Patrick Moynihan
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Replies
Hey not that you asked but I just want to clarify that it is a competition for drag queens, most of whom are gay men when they aren’t in drag. Some of them are transgender in their daily lives, but transvestite is not the term that’s really used anymore by people in either community.
I’m still having trouble finding a connection with Kimmy (and I’ve watched every season with the show) but we all have our associations I guess!
I’m still having trouble finding a connection with Kimmy (and I’ve watched every season with the show) but we all have our associations I guess!
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Because I truly don't know: Is there a term used for someone who dresses up as the opposite gender as part of a schtick or as a character but does not actually identify as transgender? I thought transvestite was the term for this and had no idea it was considered offensive prior to reading this post. Cross-dresser?
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There isn’t a universal term as far as I know. I’d say the safest bet is drag artist/queen/king/performer.
I use the term “cross-dressing” in my dissertation title but I wouldn’t use this generally, though I’m sure some drag artists do.
I feel like there was at one time someone on the boards who performed as a drag king, so maybe they’ll pop up and answer your question better than I have.
I use the term “cross-dressing” in my dissertation title but I wouldn’t use this generally, though I’m sure some drag artists do.
I feel like there was at one time someone on the boards who performed as a drag king, so maybe they’ll pop up and answer your question better than I have.
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Akua Topaz
Here is a good article:
https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/sexual-orientation-gender/trans-and-gender-nonconforming-identities/transgender-identity-terms-and-labels
It's confusing and it seems new but it really isn't. There are lots of historical examples (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_cross-dressing), the big difference is that society is being far more openminded and discussing it. Gender eoles are also going through a significant change, similar to what happened in the '60s and '70s.
Here is a good article:
https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/sexual-orientation-gender/trans-and-gender-nonconforming-identities/transgender-identity-terms-and-labels
It's confusing and it seems new but it really isn't. There are lots of historical examples (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_cross-dressing), the big difference is that society is being far more openminded and discussing it. Gender eoles are also going through a significant change, similar to what happened in the '60s and '70s.
This message was edited 2/13/2018, 6:06 PM
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Thanks for posting that article. The more you know!
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She is the person who used to perform as a drag king.
This message was edited 2/13/2018, 8:54 PM
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Oh, I forgot about that.
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What about a man who is not gay, not transgender, but likes to dress as a woman for a sexual thrill? Is the word "transvestite" still offensive in that context?
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I think so? I found an article that talked about that.
Honestly, I don't know. Eddie Izzard used to refer to himself as an executive transvestite, but now he uses transgender.
I just avoid the word altogether because if the baggage it carries.
Honestly, I don't know. Eddie Izzard used to refer to himself as an executive transvestite, but now he uses transgender.
I just avoid the word altogether because if the baggage it carries.
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Kim Chi?
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Probably, but I’m still surprised that a strong association between drag queens and the fairly common first name Kimmy would be drawn from one queen!
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This isn't a dig but a question:
Wasn't transvestite used in the past to identify a straight man who liked to dress up as a woman?
Wasn't transvestite used in the past to identify a straight man who liked to dress up as a woman?
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Stop. Using. The. Word. Transvestite.
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This subthread is so ... uncivil, that I considered just reporting you to Mike to be warned, instead of responding here. But having my say seems more likely to have a good effect. I could be wrong about that.
When we speak like we are entitled to simply censor how another person may speak for herself - based on "who" we think she is or what we assume her intentions are, or based on a presumption that everyone is responsible for agreeing with us ideologically ... we forfeit respect for our own free expression. If this board is going to keep on being an open forum, it's crucial that we communicate respectfully. With all characters, on all topics, even when we think we're being trolled, or that someone else is disrespecting us. There is no excuse for being hostile.
If you were to explain clearly and without arrogance why you find a term offensive, you could possibly educate someone, and possibly contribute to establishing conventions of what's respectful. If that's even your purpose here. It's a possible good purpose for objecting to the term, anyway. Why has no one bothered?
For whatever it's worth ... being voluntarily somewhat out of touch with political correctness, I was not aware that transvestite was considered offensive by anyone. I thought it is just a neutral, if slightly quaint, synonym for a person in superficially cross-gender dress, that doesn't assume anything about anyone's identity or whatever. I haven't seen the spectacle in question but the word "drag" in the name does suggest cross-dressing, and nothing more specific, to me. I'm telling you this in the hope that you will understand why I can't assume Roxstar intended to be offensive.
When we speak like we are entitled to simply censor how another person may speak for herself - based on "who" we think she is or what we assume her intentions are, or based on a presumption that everyone is responsible for agreeing with us ideologically ... we forfeit respect for our own free expression. If this board is going to keep on being an open forum, it's crucial that we communicate respectfully. With all characters, on all topics, even when we think we're being trolled, or that someone else is disrespecting us. There is no excuse for being hostile.
If you were to explain clearly and without arrogance why you find a term offensive, you could possibly educate someone, and possibly contribute to establishing conventions of what's respectful. If that's even your purpose here. It's a possible good purpose for objecting to the term, anyway. Why has no one bothered?
For whatever it's worth ... being voluntarily somewhat out of touch with political correctness, I was not aware that transvestite was considered offensive by anyone. I thought it is just a neutral, if slightly quaint, synonym for a person in superficially cross-gender dress, that doesn't assume anything about anyone's identity or whatever. I haven't seen the spectacle in question but the word "drag" in the name does suggest cross-dressing, and nothing more specific, to me. I'm telling you this in the hope that you will understand why I can't assume Roxstar intended to be offensive.
This message was edited 2/13/2018, 12:23 PM
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I just want to apologise if I came across as uncivil at all, as that was not my intention and I wasn’t aware of a possibility that I might come across as such. I guess I didn’t think before posting.
This message was edited 2/13/2018, 6:01 PM
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Thank you for warning me. I will step back in the future.
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Yes, please. It’s a horrendous slur.
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I love how she's not being called on it beyond three people. It is completely and totally unacceptable. And also - really - the show is "stereotypical?" OMFG - that is the ENTIRE POINT OF THE SHOW.
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This message was edited 2/13/2018, 9:36 AM
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This, exactly. It's terribly transphobic and disrespectful.
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Thank You / Sorry / & Peace
Thank you - I do not know anything about TV shows for the past about ten years or so - and even prior, not much at all--even throughout the nineties.
Thanks Again for responding - lets, if we may, please be able to comment amongst each other again. If ever I overreacted or responded too harshly in the past - I hope you'll find it in your heart to forgive me. Life's too short for conflict.
Thank You & Peace be With you
Thank you - I do not know anything about TV shows for the past about ten years or so - and even prior, not much at all--even throughout the nineties.
Thanks Again for responding - lets, if we may, please be able to comment amongst each other again. If ever I overreacted or responded too harshly in the past - I hope you'll find it in your heart to forgive me. Life's too short for conflict.
Thank You & Peace be With you
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