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HelpRe: My new Polish Princess combo...
in reply to a message by LuzDeTuVida
I see your point. But to me trying to honour a Polish heritage by using a Russian/Ukrainian name is just... strange. The two languages and cultures are SO different. Especially considering Russia and Poland's history. :P In the same way it also annoys me when people try to honour Spanish or Portuguese ancestry by using Italian names. It just feels slightly disrespectful.
That being said, it's a very pretty name. :D
ETA: Valentyna is actually the *Ukrainian* form of the name. In Russian is Valentina (as in Valentina Tereshkova, the first woman in space). I should have checked my facts first, lol.
That being said, it's a very pretty name. :D
ETA: Valentyna is actually the *Ukrainian* form of the name. In Russian is Valentina (as in Valentina Tereshkova, the first woman in space). I should have checked my facts first, lol.
This message was edited 5/16/2010, 6:13 PM
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Hmm that's funny how the Ukrainian name uses the "y" in it's transliteration, while the Russian doesn't. They're alphabets are fairly close. But I've actually studied Ukrainian, so it's not a big deal to me. I have a love for most Slavic cultures. I also plan to take a Russian class soon.
But that's not the point. I was merely trying to say that I don't see Valentyna as a made-up spelling. And it's not so much that I'm using the Ukrainian spelling. I'm just using a variant on the Polish spelling, but most Polish names are changed slightly when people come to America. They may technically use the Latin alphabet, but many letters make very different sounds. For example, I have an ex-boyfriend with the last name Golanoski. It was originally Golanowski, but it would have been pronounced very differently if people here failed to the "W" like a "V". And they undoubtedly would have. Golanovski would have been another legitimate option for an anglicized spelling.
The name Lew is another example of this. I want to use this name for a son, but I know if I spell it that way, people will always mispronounce it "Lou". I'm going to use the "Russian spelling" Lev, but really it's just like a transliteration. It's not even really the Russian spelling because the Russians use the Cyrillic alphabet. So either way, you have to anglicize. I'd rather slightly anglicize spelling that completely anglicize and totally botch the pronunciation. I hope that makes sense.
But that's not the point. I was merely trying to say that I don't see Valentyna as a made-up spelling. And it's not so much that I'm using the Ukrainian spelling. I'm just using a variant on the Polish spelling, but most Polish names are changed slightly when people come to America. They may technically use the Latin alphabet, but many letters make very different sounds. For example, I have an ex-boyfriend with the last name Golanoski. It was originally Golanowski, but it would have been pronounced very differently if people here failed to the "W" like a "V". And they undoubtedly would have. Golanovski would have been another legitimate option for an anglicized spelling.
The name Lew is another example of this. I want to use this name for a son, but I know if I spell it that way, people will always mispronounce it "Lou". I'm going to use the "Russian spelling" Lev, but really it's just like a transliteration. It's not even really the Russian spelling because the Russians use the Cyrillic alphabet. So either way, you have to anglicize. I'd rather slightly anglicize spelling that completely anglicize and totally botch the pronunciation. I hope that makes sense.
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I think Russian transliterations tend to vary with the language. For instance, Yuriy is spelt Youri in French. Lenin is Lenine in Portuguese. Both spellings are valid.
I stick to my point. Walentyna would be anglicised as Valentina. Valentyna looks as though it would be pronounced as [val-en-TIE-na] in English. The 'y' adds nothing to the name but further confusion towards the spelling.
I'd rather use the original spelling (frankly, if people can learn how to pronounce Nevaeh, would Walentyna be that difficult?) or chose a name that works in both languages.
An example. Imagine I love the name Audrey and want to use it for a child. I live in Portugal, where the name would most likely tend to be pronounced as [OW-dray]. To prevent this, I decide to spell phonetically as Odri - but because it doesn't feel English enough I settle on Odry. And then I say to people my daughter has an English name.
This is an exageration, of course, but I'm trying to point out that what you're doing is a disrespect towards the original language. If you want to use a Polish name, chose a Polish name. Follow the rules of Polish ortography - in Poland variant spellings aren't allowed, unlike what happens in the States, where you can have Emily / Emilie / Emilee / Emmaleigh. Valentyna can't be considered Polish at all.
I'm sorry if I'm being a pain. Lew / Lev is one of my favourites, btw! :D
I stick to my point. Walentyna would be anglicised as Valentina. Valentyna looks as though it would be pronounced as [val-en-TIE-na] in English. The 'y' adds nothing to the name but further confusion towards the spelling.
I'd rather use the original spelling (frankly, if people can learn how to pronounce Nevaeh, would Walentyna be that difficult?) or chose a name that works in both languages.
An example. Imagine I love the name Audrey and want to use it for a child. I live in Portugal, where the name would most likely tend to be pronounced as [OW-dray]. To prevent this, I decide to spell phonetically as Odri - but because it doesn't feel English enough I settle on Odry. And then I say to people my daughter has an English name.
This is an exageration, of course, but I'm trying to point out that what you're doing is a disrespect towards the original language. If you want to use a Polish name, chose a Polish name. Follow the rules of Polish ortography - in Poland variant spellings aren't allowed, unlike what happens in the States, where you can have Emily / Emilie / Emilee / Emmaleigh. Valentyna can't be considered Polish at all.
I'm sorry if I'm being a pain. Lew / Lev is one of my favourites, btw! :D
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I think you're right about the Russian transliterations changing. There are like 5 different legitimate spellings for Dimitri.
But Odri would be pronounced "OH-dree" in Portugal...That "adaption" makes no sense. But if I really wanted that particular pronunciation that much, I might consider changing it to Adri, or use the Portugues form, Adriana, and use that as a nickname. But really, the slight change in pronunciation wouldn't really bother me there. I speak some Spanish, so I'm used to the "ow" sound for "au", and I pronounced names like Claudia both ways compulsively.
I see what you're saying about how variations do a disservice to the original language. In a perfect world, I really would like to use Walentyna. If I lived in a country that pronounced the W as V, like Germany for instance, I would do it. Here it would cause wayyyy too much confusion. It's one thing if it's a letter in the middle of you're name, but when they're already writing out your name and they have the first letter wrong, that's a big deal. And many people here do not immediately realize that W is pronounced V in certain languages. You'd be surprised how stupid people can be when it comes to basic knowledge of foreign languages. My mom pronounces the ll's in "tortilla", and I can't teach people for my life simple things like the fact that the name Roberto is pronounced roughly "ro-BEHR-to", not just Robert with an "o". And no offense, but even you just mistakenly tried to use an O where you should have used an A in a Romance language. They are very different sounds in those languages. Classic American mistake that I see all the time.
I hate having to pander to ignorance, but that's how the majority of Americans are at the moment. Some countries make a sincere effort to pronounce foreign names and words correctly. Germans are known for this.
But Odri would be pronounced "OH-dree" in Portugal...That "adaption" makes no sense. But if I really wanted that particular pronunciation that much, I might consider changing it to Adri, or use the Portugues form, Adriana, and use that as a nickname. But really, the slight change in pronunciation wouldn't really bother me there. I speak some Spanish, so I'm used to the "ow" sound for "au", and I pronounced names like Claudia both ways compulsively.
I see what you're saying about how variations do a disservice to the original language. In a perfect world, I really would like to use Walentyna. If I lived in a country that pronounced the W as V, like Germany for instance, I would do it. Here it would cause wayyyy too much confusion. It's one thing if it's a letter in the middle of you're name, but when they're already writing out your name and they have the first letter wrong, that's a big deal. And many people here do not immediately realize that W is pronounced V in certain languages. You'd be surprised how stupid people can be when it comes to basic knowledge of foreign languages. My mom pronounces the ll's in "tortilla", and I can't teach people for my life simple things like the fact that the name Roberto is pronounced roughly "ro-BEHR-to", not just Robert with an "o". And no offense, but even you just mistakenly tried to use an O where you should have used an A in a Romance language. They are very different sounds in those languages. Classic American mistake that I see all the time.
I hate having to pander to ignorance, but that's how the majority of Americans are at the moment. Some countries make a sincere effort to pronounce foreign names and words correctly. Germans are known for this.
This message was edited 5/18/2010, 10:26 AM
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LOL - I'm Portuguese, Portuguese is my first language, so I can assure you that Odri would be the phonetical transliteration of Audrey here (and Adriana is a completely unrelated name, BTW). I speak Spanish and French and have a good understanding of Italian, so I think I know my Romance languages fairly well ;)
The "Classical American mistake" is trying to adapt foreign cultures and languages because you think it sounds beautiful or practical or whatever. Valentyna is a typical example of this (nothing wrong with the name, as I mentioned - it's just silly that your trying to imply it's Polish in any way shape or form).
It's been a fascinating discussion, BTW. :D
The "Classical American mistake" is trying to adapt foreign cultures and languages because you think it sounds beautiful or practical or whatever. Valentyna is a typical example of this (nothing wrong with the name, as I mentioned - it's just silly that your trying to imply it's Polish in any way shape or form).
It's been a fascinating discussion, BTW. :D
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