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HelpRe: Joel, Kiko, Miko (girls)
in reply to a message by Ismene
I've not made any studies on the subject but it does seem that *most* boy names stolen for girls contain softer sounds and components that are already familiar in girl names. Elliott is an example of this. As much as I see Elliott as completely masculine and hate to see it used on girls, logically, it does contain the "ellie" sound, and an ending similar to the "ette" component commonly used in girl names.
I'm one who does not enjoy boy names on girls at all but, regarding the specific examples you list here, Devon does work on a girl for me. This is influenced by the softer sounds the name contains and by the fact that I strongly associate it with a beautiful place and thus with feminine pronouns since, by tradition (for English-speakers, anyway), cities/countries/vessels, etc. are referred to as "she"/"her".
Ryan and Rowan are completely masculine for me but, logically, I can understand how some people might perceive them as having feminine qualities because they contain softer sounds and similarities to already familiar girl names, such as Diane and Rowena.
For me, Joel cannot really be placed in the same "logical" category. Aside from the potential nickname "Jo", there's nothing here that feels recognizable as similar to already familiar girl names. Sound and feel-wise, for me, Joel is overtly more masculine than either Ryan or Rowan, so it makes sense to me that people would perceive it as a stranger choice for a girl.
I'm one who does not enjoy boy names on girls at all but, regarding the specific examples you list here, Devon does work on a girl for me. This is influenced by the softer sounds the name contains and by the fact that I strongly associate it with a beautiful place and thus with feminine pronouns since, by tradition (for English-speakers, anyway), cities/countries/vessels, etc. are referred to as "she"/"her".
Ryan and Rowan are completely masculine for me but, logically, I can understand how some people might perceive them as having feminine qualities because they contain softer sounds and similarities to already familiar girl names, such as Diane and Rowena.
For me, Joel cannot really be placed in the same "logical" category. Aside from the potential nickname "Jo", there's nothing here that feels recognizable as similar to already familiar girl names. Sound and feel-wise, for me, Joel is overtly more masculine than either Ryan or Rowan, so it makes sense to me that people would perceive it as a stranger choice for a girl.
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But "Jo" is a recognizable sound on a girl, and it's really the ONLY sound. As for the less prominent "uhl" ending there's Cheryl, Carole, Myrtle... But then, every name when broken down probably contains both "masculine" and "feminine" parts. I just don't think Joel screams "MAN!" In the same way that something like Butch, or Arnold, or even Carson or Logan (which I've both seen used on girls before) do.
Ryan is to Diane as Joel is to Noelle
Obviously names conjure different images and impressions for everyone. I'm just having a hard time seeing Joel-on-a-girl as that largely different than Ryan-on-a-girl; other than that Ryan-on-a-girl is heard of.
I'm not really that caught up in it. Was just perplexed I suppose
Ryan is to Diane as Joel is to Noelle
Obviously names conjure different images and impressions for everyone. I'm just having a hard time seeing Joel-on-a-girl as that largely different than Ryan-on-a-girl; other than that Ryan-on-a-girl is heard of.
I'm not really that caught up in it. Was just perplexed I suppose
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You make a good point about the ending sound of Cheryl and Myrtle, etc. I wasn't hearing the ending of Joel as being recognizably similar to any feminine names, but it is.
Regarding your Ryan to Diane, Joel to Noelle analogy, despite the stress falling differently, the sound components of Ryan, for me, are far closer to that of Diane than is the sound of Joel to Noelle, the latter being very soft and feminine. I realize YMMV.
I get what you're saying about the only difference, for you, being that Joel isn't heard of in use for girls but, for me, for whatever reason, Joel still feels more overtly masculine and, while it doesn't scream it quite as loudly as Butch, for me, it's every bit as masculine as Arnold.
Regarding your Ryan to Diane, Joel to Noelle analogy, despite the stress falling differently, the sound components of Ryan, for me, are far closer to that of Diane than is the sound of Joel to Noelle, the latter being very soft and feminine. I realize YMMV.
I get what you're saying about the only difference, for you, being that Joel isn't heard of in use for girls but, for me, for whatever reason, Joel still feels more overtly masculine and, while it doesn't scream it quite as loudly as Butch, for me, it's every bit as masculine as Arnold.
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