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HelpRe: Shylock
in reply to a message by glaucous
It is way worse. So, so, so worse. It is a slur against Jewish people. The whole character is a man who represents Jews at their worst.
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Can you come up with another (character's) name that would be comparably offensive to use?
Because I understand what you're saying about the character...but I can't really grasp why using the name for a real person would actually be perceived as a slur...
Because I understand what you're saying about the character...but I can't really grasp why using the name for a real person would actually be perceived as a slur...
This message was edited 4/27/2012, 4:04 PM
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Well, it's sort of like how people don't really use the name Adolf anymore because of Hitler. It's mainly the negative associations the name has now.
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Ok, I'm not really arguing the negative connotation; I'm trying to understand the extremity of the reaction. Because in my mind it doesn't really connect.
Hitler was real; he lived 70 years ago.
Shylock was fictional; he was created 400 years ago.
Hitler persecuted millions of Jews.
Shylock was a Jew who argued for his own humanity.
Yes, Shylock was portrayed as a villain, but he lived in an obviously prejudiced society...
Hitler was real; he lived 70 years ago.
Shylock was fictional; he was created 400 years ago.
Hitler persecuted millions of Jews.
Shylock was a Jew who argued for his own humanity.
Yes, Shylock was portrayed as a villain, but he lived in an obviously prejudiced society...
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Villain or victem lashing out to fight for rights, it's still too strong of a conotation. Especially with the other meanings and uses Shylock gained after the play debuted. Just because a name belongs to a fictional character doesn't mean that it doesn't get a strong image with it. Romeo and Juliet are star crossed lovers, even if they're dating someone else. Voldemort is hatred and racism personified. Hamelet can't make up his mind.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shylock
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shylock
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Ha ha. Point. I would totally judge parents who named their child Voldemort.
I wonder if that's happened...
I wonder if that's happened...
This message was edited 4/27/2012, 7:32 PM
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That's it
You've had ample explanation. Now you're just trying to stir things up. We're not biting any more. Please move along now. Any more and it's trolling.
You've had ample explanation. Now you're just trying to stir things up. We're not biting any more. Please move along now. Any more and it's trolling.
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I apologize
I apologize if I offended you.
I really do like the name, independent of the character; my confusion was sincere.
RoxStar finally managed to convince me it's a bad idea, though.
I apologize if I offended you.
I really do like the name, independent of the character; my confusion was sincere.
RoxStar finally managed to convince me it's a bad idea, though.
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No need
You're good. You can have your own opinion on a name. That's fine. It's the *repetition* on a sensitive topic that had the potential to get out of hand. :-)
Happy week-end everyone. I'm out of here.
You're good. You can have your own opinion on a name. That's fine. It's the *repetition* on a sensitive topic that had the potential to get out of hand. :-)
Happy week-end everyone. I'm out of here.
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it's different than Adolf too...
In that Adolf was widely used by many people before Hitler came along. Shylock, so far as I know, was made up specifically for the character in the play.
In that Adolf was widely used by many people before Hitler came along. Shylock, so far as I know, was made up specifically for the character in the play.
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That's true. I didn't think about that. Yeah, Shylock is more than just bad associations. You're right. It's a slur in and of itself now, unfortunately.
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and...
It's not like there was a bunch of people called Shylock that suddenly had to come to terms with the fact that their name had been appropriated for an insult against an entire group. There's only one Shylock.
It's not like there was a bunch of people called Shylock that suddenly had to come to terms with the fact that their name had been appropriated for an insult against an entire group. There's only one Shylock.
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Huh!
I actually never knew this. Shame. Shylock is a nice sounding name.
I actually never knew this. Shame. Shylock is a nice sounding name.
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