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HelpRe: Question about names and cultures
in reply to a message by ADT
America must have that illusion also. It bothers me to hear that America is a "come one, come all" country where everyone mixes because in my experience that's simply not true. There's got to be some reason why I've had a total of two acquaintances (just acquaintances) in my whole life who were not white American. I don't think it's because of a lack of friendliness on my part and it's not because of a lack of people of other cultures. It just seems like trying to bridge that space between cultures has always resulted in an oil and vinegar situation. I remember in 8th grade I tried to be friends with a really nice Hispanic girl (I don't know specifically where she was from) and when it was just us hanging out we got along wonderfully. But when her other friends who were also Hispanic were around I was completely lost because they spoke Spanish to each other. I remember one girl in particular who wouldn't even look at me. It wasn't just them though. I don't speak Spanish, so I had no way to relate to them.
I also remember one of my first jobs. Most of the people who worked there were of Slavic descent, Hungarian or Russian, etc. When I told them that I was half Slovakian I was almost instantly in the fold. Even though I don't speak any Slavic language. I was hearing stories about their families in Hungary, who was getting married to who when...it was incredible, using the "impossible to believe" definition. I've never experienced anything like it.
I'm not sure what my comfort level would be. When I was choosing my name there would have been a LOT of very Hebrew/Jewish names on my list if I wasn't so trepidatious about using a name from a culture I'm clearly not a member of.
I also remember one of my first jobs. Most of the people who worked there were of Slavic descent, Hungarian or Russian, etc. When I told them that I was half Slovakian I was almost instantly in the fold. Even though I don't speak any Slavic language. I was hearing stories about their families in Hungary, who was getting married to who when...it was incredible, using the "impossible to believe" definition. I've never experienced anything like it.
I'm not sure what my comfort level would be. When I was choosing my name there would have been a LOT of very Hebrew/Jewish names on my list if I wasn't so trepidatious about using a name from a culture I'm clearly not a member of.
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That is very, very Fargo.
Moving here was a huge culture shock to me in a lot of ways, the biggest one being how separate the area is. In DC you had your different groups and while it was often based on culture there was always cross-over. Here? Not so much. I remember having to run inference whenever we had a non-American family visit the store I worked at. So many of my co-workers were upset that they couldn't speak English or had an accent - and incredibly distrustful of them. I also see this when I shop at ethnic grocery stores. My husband & I eat a lot of international foods and grains - we find a better (and often cheaper) selection at various international grocery stories. Every time we walk in, though, I can feel the tension. It's obvious they've had quite a few Americans walks in and just make fun of the food/etc. I have to make an effort to talk to them and show them that I know about their foods & cultures before they welcome me. I've also made it a habit of asking people where they're from - especially people from Africa. Too often people don't even know that their are actual countries in Africa and the idea that someone knows where Nigeria / Sudan / Chad / Kenya / Ghana is and knows about the food, language(s) and culture means so much to them. It's ridiculous how close-minded people can be.
Moving here was a huge culture shock to me in a lot of ways, the biggest one being how separate the area is. In DC you had your different groups and while it was often based on culture there was always cross-over. Here? Not so much. I remember having to run inference whenever we had a non-American family visit the store I worked at. So many of my co-workers were upset that they couldn't speak English or had an accent - and incredibly distrustful of them. I also see this when I shop at ethnic grocery stores. My husband & I eat a lot of international foods and grains - we find a better (and often cheaper) selection at various international grocery stories. Every time we walk in, though, I can feel the tension. It's obvious they've had quite a few Americans walks in and just make fun of the food/etc. I have to make an effort to talk to them and show them that I know about their foods & cultures before they welcome me. I've also made it a habit of asking people where they're from - especially people from Africa. Too often people don't even know that their are actual countries in Africa and the idea that someone knows where Nigeria / Sudan / Chad / Kenya / Ghana is and knows about the food, language(s) and culture means so much to them. It's ridiculous how close-minded people can be.
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You guys don't sound very happy in Fargo. Why don't you move to a place that is a bigger, a bit more liberal-minded? That sounds more your speed.
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My husband has an excellent job with great benefits. Moving in this economy would be chancy at best. Plus while there is plenty about Fargo I don't like there is also quite a bit I do. Enough to make it work out for the next few years.
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Thanks for sharing, I definitely can relate (I'm middle-class white). I don't think Canadians are as bad as you've described (although it depends on the person)... I mean with look-giving and such tightly knitted groups. But, somehow people tend to socialize with those with similar experiences. My parents visited with friends in the U.S recently and they came back shocked as to how racist the friends were being - ie: when showing them around the city they would make comments like "this is where the black people live, so we don't come here often" and just stereotyping.
I love the names Rachel and Leah... but I'm not Jewish... hmm...
I love the names Rachel and Leah... but I'm not Jewish... hmm...
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People do tend to gravitate towards others that they have something definite in common with. I personally find it a little bit boring and lonely. Sort of like talking to a mirror sometimes. Racism itself is a big problem where I am. It constantly amazes me how plainly stated it is without any kind of shame.
I don't know if the Rachel and Leah thing was a point you were trying to make or not, but I do sort of get it if you were. I do feel like there's a difference between using a name that's been adopted by American culture and one that's practically unknown to it, though I suppose that opinion is hardly justifiable if we're going strictly by culture. The Jewish/Hebrew names that I especially love are more along the lines of Keturah, Hadassah, Rivka, Avigail, Elisheva, etc. Not exactly common. I don't even have the excuse of being Christian and saying that I got it from the Bible or somesuch.
I don't know if the Rachel and Leah thing was a point you were trying to make or not, but I do sort of get it if you were. I do feel like there's a difference between using a name that's been adopted by American culture and one that's practically unknown to it, though I suppose that opinion is hardly justifiable if we're going strictly by culture. The Jewish/Hebrew names that I especially love are more along the lines of Keturah, Hadassah, Rivka, Avigail, Elisheva, etc. Not exactly common. I don't even have the excuse of being Christian and saying that I got it from the Bible or somesuch.
This message was edited 7/15/2011, 7:02 PM
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Yes, I was trying to make a point with Rachel & Leah. I had a roommate Rachel, her siblings were Sarah, Peter, and John. Being a name nerd I suspected that they referred to Biblical names and I was completely right. Rachel has a Mennonite background.
From the list that you gave I feel that Avigal would be seen as a creative spelling of Abigail my most. My name is Agata and I've been asked before if my parents misspelled my name (I prounounce Agata like Agatha without the H - so Agate-uh).
From the list that you gave I feel that Avigal would be seen as a creative spelling of Abigail my most. My name is Agata and I've been asked before if my parents misspelled my name (I prounounce Agata like Agatha without the H - so Agate-uh).
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Most people probably would assume that, except anyone who was actually Jewish and familiar with Jewish names. But then I'm assuming. In the end I suppose it really depends on the individual person's opinion, whether they'd be offended or honored. Who can count on either one?
Agata is a gorgeous name, by the way.
Agata is a gorgeous name, by the way.
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typo: Avigail*
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