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HelpRe: Tyrone
in reply to a message by kudriashkajo
It's impossible to put in purely word form. When Americans now say Tyrone with the long "i" sound it's as if there are two distinct syllables. When the Irish say it, and the way the Americans used to say it (just without that soft, Gaelic "r"), it was more like one long syllable. Using the long "i" really makes it sound awkward. I'm sorry if I can't find a way to convey it by typing. But if you ever heard an Irish person say it you'd know the difference straight away.
Bottom line: Yes, I do think it would be easy to correct once modern Americans here the way I'm trying to convey.
Bottom line: Yes, I do think it would be easy to correct once modern Americans here the way I'm trying to convey.
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Replies
I guess I'll just take your word for it. :0)
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It is a very distinctive sound difference. Hating the "American" bastardized pronunciation has more to do with connotations of the name being "ghetto". The sound in english is similar to TYE-ROAN and Irish is closer to TEER-OHN or TEE-RAHN. One pronunciation screams GHETTO and the other screams MMMMMM IRISH. For lack of a better description....
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Personally I'm not so sure tha "ghetto" is such a bad association. But different, for sure.
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Ugh racist
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It is pretty distasteful to throw around the term "racist" when someone states a matter of fact. Reality Check - "Tyrone" is considered a "ghetto" name by many people in the United States including many in the black community. Are their people named Tyrone who are not ghetto? Certainly. However, the connotation exists and is a major reason why a friend of mine chose to give her children "resume names" because of the connotation. These connotations associated with names are the same reason why Dave Chappelle chose the name "Tyrone" to represent a character who needs a "crack intervention" rather than a name like "Victor". I'm sure there's a reason why "Adolf" isn't exactly topping the charts either.
Maybe you should broaden your mind to include some names with negative connotations into your repertoire.
Maybe you should broaden your mind to include some names with negative connotations into your repertoire.
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My two cents.
This is what I personally picture with both names.
Tyrone with American pronunication:
Black or white: I picture someone incredibly muscular and a mechanic. Teased a bit for his name. Hard-working, intelligent and solidly middle class.
Tyrone, with the Irish pronunication:
This is where I picture the hood rat. Making sure everyone pronounces his name that way so it looks 'elegant-like.' Hoodlum, wannabe. That or I picture an overly feminine gay may who again wants to sound 'elegant like.' And again, I see this as a black/white name - one that crosses the line.
This is from my personal experience and knowing people. The only ones who insist on the proper pronunication are those who are trying really, really hard to seem classier than they are - and that to me is trashy.
This is what I personally picture with both names.
Tyrone with American pronunication:
Black or white: I picture someone incredibly muscular and a mechanic. Teased a bit for his name. Hard-working, intelligent and solidly middle class.
Tyrone, with the Irish pronunication:
This is where I picture the hood rat. Making sure everyone pronounces his name that way so it looks 'elegant-like.' Hoodlum, wannabe. That or I picture an overly feminine gay may who again wants to sound 'elegant like.' And again, I see this as a black/white name - one that crosses the line.
This is from my personal experience and knowing people. The only ones who insist on the proper pronunication are those who are trying really, really hard to seem classier than they are - and that to me is trashy.
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What exactly does "ghetto" mean when applied to a person?
Unless you mean, it sounds black.
By the way I'm sure people who live in the ghetto will appreciate you comparing them to Hitler
Unless you mean, it sounds black.
By the way I'm sure people who live in the ghetto will appreciate you comparing them to Hitler
This message was edited 3/6/2011, 1:42 PM
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Sooo much vom in your general direction right now
The idea that thinking "ghetto" is absolutely the worst thing in the world might be kind of, I dunno, distasteful doesn't seem to have occurred to you.
I mean you're not even saying "I'm worried my teer-AWN baby won't get a job because people might think he's ghetto," you're saying "oh it's so lovely and elegant and wonderful when one vowel makes a different sound, because it doesn't connote ghetto people AKA stereotypical black people, and when it does connote such people it's really gross and an abomination to the lovely MMMMMMMM Irish white people name it actually is."
The idea that thinking "ghetto" is absolutely the worst thing in the world might be kind of, I dunno, distasteful doesn't seem to have occurred to you.
I mean you're not even saying "I'm worried my teer-AWN baby won't get a job because people might think he's ghetto," you're saying "oh it's so lovely and elegant and wonderful when one vowel makes a different sound, because it doesn't connote ghetto people AKA stereotypical black people, and when it does connote such people it's really gross and an abomination to the lovely MMMMMMMM Irish white people name it actually is."
This message was edited 3/6/2011, 1:31 PM
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One thing
I'm going to try and figure out how to say this, because I'm terrible at it.
Trailer Trash & Ghetto are the same things to me - exactly. I don't really like either term for various reasons but they are the same thing. Blacks and whites are - more or less - two very distinct cultures. There are just different names for them, I think.
From what I've seen in the Black community (and I've spent plenty of time around them) Tyrone does have a trashy connotation. My friend who is black would refer to Tyrone as a 'hood rat name.' Keisha / Monique / Tamika are perfectly acceptable to her - but Tyrone, Keyshawna, and LaShanika are not. Just like I tend to shy away from names like Allysin / Braylynn / Emmaleigh.
I'm going to try and figure out how to say this, because I'm terrible at it.
Trailer Trash & Ghetto are the same things to me - exactly. I don't really like either term for various reasons but they are the same thing. Blacks and whites are - more or less - two very distinct cultures. There are just different names for them, I think.
From what I've seen in the Black community (and I've spent plenty of time around them) Tyrone does have a trashy connotation. My friend who is black would refer to Tyrone as a 'hood rat name.' Keisha / Monique / Tamika are perfectly acceptable to her - but Tyrone, Keyshawna, and LaShanika are not. Just like I tend to shy away from names like Allysin / Braylynn / Emmaleigh.
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Okay but this is still classism, which is the same thing as racism but less visible.
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Point #1 - I wasn't numero uno to call the name Tyrone "ghetto" - that would be Orsino's original response to my post. At which point I thought, "hmm...he/she has a point - maybe this name has a negative connotation associated with it."
To: Akua Topaz - "ghetto" means "black trash" and implies that you are an uneducated, classless idiot. Stop making inferences where there are none. I in no way compared "people who live in the ghetto...to Hitler". What I apparently need to spell out for you is that I would do my best not to saddle an innocent child with a name that has serious negative connotations - be it Cletus, Adolf, or Tyrone. That's gross negligence and stupidity.
To: beethoven - I wouldn't say that being called "ghetto" is the 'worst thing in the world', but it is insulting to most people. Surely, you don't live in the United States or even understand what that word means. I am quite shocked that you think that "ghetto" equates to "stereotypical black people". That's sick and probably one of the most racist statements I've ever seen. Being called "ghetto" means being called "trash" and if you think that "stereotypical black people" are trash then you live in a sad, sad world indeed.
Any parent with half a brain ought to consider the consequences of giving their child a name that has negative connotations associated with it. To point out those connotations exist is not racist - it is a fact. It is irrelevant whether it is right or wrong, people will judge you based on your name and will judge your child based on his or her name.
And yes, I prefer the Irish pronunciation of the name Tyrone to the American pronunciation because they SOUND like 2 different names and I like the SOUND of the "MMMM Irish Accent". That doesn't make me racist.
Classism and racism are not the same thing. You're still grasping at straws trying to make a point where there isn't one. You're defensive and a simpleton which together make a pathetic combination. Do me a favor - don't comment on any of my posts and I'll do the same for you. I don't have time to further deal with your "vom" and other nonsense BS.
To: Akua Topaz - "ghetto" means "black trash" and implies that you are an uneducated, classless idiot. Stop making inferences where there are none. I in no way compared "people who live in the ghetto...to Hitler". What I apparently need to spell out for you is that I would do my best not to saddle an innocent child with a name that has serious negative connotations - be it Cletus, Adolf, or Tyrone. That's gross negligence and stupidity.
To: beethoven - I wouldn't say that being called "ghetto" is the 'worst thing in the world', but it is insulting to most people. Surely, you don't live in the United States or even understand what that word means. I am quite shocked that you think that "ghetto" equates to "stereotypical black people". That's sick and probably one of the most racist statements I've ever seen. Being called "ghetto" means being called "trash" and if you think that "stereotypical black people" are trash then you live in a sad, sad world indeed.
Any parent with half a brain ought to consider the consequences of giving their child a name that has negative connotations associated with it. To point out those connotations exist is not racist - it is a fact. It is irrelevant whether it is right or wrong, people will judge you based on your name and will judge your child based on his or her name.
And yes, I prefer the Irish pronunciation of the name Tyrone to the American pronunciation because they SOUND like 2 different names and I like the SOUND of the "MMMM Irish Accent". That doesn't make me racist.
Classism and racism are not the same thing. You're still grasping at straws trying to make a point where there isn't one. You're defensive and a simpleton which together make a pathetic combination. Do me a favor - don't comment on any of my posts and I'll do the same for you. I don't have time to further deal with your "vom" and other nonsense BS.
This message was edited 3/7/2011, 4:49 PM
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