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in reply to a message by Lily8
The weight of history--the historical usage as either masculine or feminine--is unimportant to you? Are they unisex because you perceive them as words first and names second and English words are ungendered? What about names like Violet or Faith?
I'm not trying to be snarky or combative...I'm just trying to understand a POV that's very different from mine. It's difficult for me to understand how anyone could think April as fitting a choice for a boy as, say, John.
I'm not trying to be snarky or combative...I'm just trying to understand a POV that's very different from mine. It's difficult for me to understand how anyone could think April as fitting a choice for a boy as, say, John.
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The month of may was named after a MALE god (Maius), so are you saying May should be a boys name? Same with July and March.
Christian was a girls name in the Middle Ages and so was Julian (historical use) yet most people prefer them on boys and think I'm crazy when I consider Julian for a girl. Genders of names can change over time. So yeah, August might have been a male name before it became a month but now it's a month and a word and therefore unisex to me as are many words (Brook, Sky etc). Faith I could definitely see on a boy. As for Violet, no because it has a feminine sound because of the -ette ending. I'm not saying that all word names are gender neutral but August has no distinctive masculine or feminine sound so it works.
Christian was a girls name in the Middle Ages and so was Julian (historical use) yet most people prefer them on boys and think I'm crazy when I consider Julian for a girl. Genders of names can change over time. So yeah, August might have been a male name before it became a month but now it's a month and a word and therefore unisex to me as are many words (Brook, Sky etc). Faith I could definitely see on a boy. As for Violet, no because it has a feminine sound because of the -ette ending. I'm not saying that all word names are gender neutral but August has no distinctive masculine or feminine sound so it works.
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The month of may was named after a MALE god (Maius), so are you saying May should be a boys name? Same with July and March.
Uh, okay. Good to know, although I think May is actually after the goddess Maia. Maia or Maius, it's debatable enough that the arguement would be essentially pointless. I never said anything about origin, something generally as unimportant to me as a name's literal meaning. I'm talking about usage, such as how the name has been used in my nation over time. For example, April has been on the SSA 1000 list since 1939 for girls, no statistically significant usage for boys or August on the boy list from 1880 on with no significant usage for girls. My question was whether or not the name's usage matters to you at all in assigning gender to a name. Sorry if I was somehow unclear.
I'm aware that Christian and Julian were used for boys in the middle ages, as well as Jordan, Anna for boys, and others. For me, this is not meaningful because I'm also aware of how the names are used now: Christian (b-22), Julian (b-66), Jordan (b-45, g-100), Anna (g-25). Like you say, names change over time. To me, Jordan retained its unisex identity. Christian, Julian, and Anna did not.
If your criteria is based upon whether or not a name contains clearly masculine or feminine sounds, how do you classify names such as Ezra or Elijah? Do they qualify as unisex, or even feminine, since they conceivably contain feminine sound markers?
Uh, okay. Good to know, although I think May is actually after the goddess Maia. Maia or Maius, it's debatable enough that the arguement would be essentially pointless. I never said anything about origin, something generally as unimportant to me as a name's literal meaning. I'm talking about usage, such as how the name has been used in my nation over time. For example, April has been on the SSA 1000 list since 1939 for girls, no statistically significant usage for boys or August on the boy list from 1880 on with no significant usage for girls. My question was whether or not the name's usage matters to you at all in assigning gender to a name. Sorry if I was somehow unclear.
I'm aware that Christian and Julian were used for boys in the middle ages, as well as Jordan, Anna for boys, and others. For me, this is not meaningful because I'm also aware of how the names are used now: Christian (b-22), Julian (b-66), Jordan (b-45, g-100), Anna (g-25). Like you say, names change over time. To me, Jordan retained its unisex identity. Christian, Julian, and Anna did not.
If your criteria is based upon whether or not a name contains clearly masculine or feminine sounds, how do you classify names such as Ezra or Elijah? Do they qualify as unisex, or even feminine, since they conceivably contain feminine sound markers?
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I agree with the poster that all the girls named Augustina and Augustine would have been called August at some point as a nickname so it could as well have been used on girls. We just don't know.
How do you think usage changed over time? Because at some point a rather adventurous person decided to use a name that was used on boys until that point for a girl or the other way around. Maybe even one that had a long historical use. So why shouldn't I use August on a girl? Maybe in 40 years there'll be several little girls named August around just as there a now heaps of male Christians.
You don't care about how names were used back then because you just care about their usage NOW? Or do you mean since popularity charts exists? Sorry but that's a really weak argument. August is hardly common nowadays so if I name a girl August as some other people have done (Garth Brooks, for example) and other people who see it as feminine it might get a bit more common for girls and that will be its common use. Will you prefer it for a girl then? Do you prefer Ashley, Lindsey, Whitney, Morgan etc etc for girls just because they're in common use?
Well, I'm from a country where most girls names end in A so yes they sound unisex to me, especially Ezra. I never said that I consider an -ah sound feminine, by the way. Feminine would be something like -ina (at the end of a name) or -issa.
How do you think usage changed over time? Because at some point a rather adventurous person decided to use a name that was used on boys until that point for a girl or the other way around. Maybe even one that had a long historical use. So why shouldn't I use August on a girl? Maybe in 40 years there'll be several little girls named August around just as there a now heaps of male Christians.
You don't care about how names were used back then because you just care about their usage NOW? Or do you mean since popularity charts exists? Sorry but that's a really weak argument. August is hardly common nowadays so if I name a girl August as some other people have done (Garth Brooks, for example) and other people who see it as feminine it might get a bit more common for girls and that will be its common use. Will you prefer it for a girl then? Do you prefer Ashley, Lindsey, Whitney, Morgan etc etc for girls just because they're in common use?
Well, I'm from a country where most girls names end in A so yes they sound unisex to me, especially Ezra. I never said that I consider an -ah sound feminine, by the way. Feminine would be something like -ina (at the end of a name) or -issa.
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I care about current usage because it is an indicator of how my children's names will be recieved and what it will be like to live with the name. This is extremely important to me because I don't name for myself: a name is a gift I give to another human being. To the best of my ability, I want that gift to be the best "fit" it can possibly be. My personal belief is that a name greatly biased toward one gender is not a good fit for the other, regardless of what was the rage in 1292. My child has to live with it now. If this argument strikes you as weaker than a celebrity endorsement, well, I probably couldn't explain it to you any further.
So yes, if I could stomach the names to begin with, I would never use Ashley, Lindsey, or Whitney on a boy, just as I wouldn't use Logan or Ashton on a girl.
You're right that August is relatively uncommon, and I certainly don't think it would be traumatic for a girl to be named August. I don't, however, believe that most names change because of usage by "adventurous" individuals, unless that individual is famous and/or influential. I believe most names change because of changes in their climate of usage--societal and cultural changes that push parents to and from different kinds of names. Or maybe it's a combination of the two in some magic ratio. I don't think we know. Perhaps August will change over time, perhaps not. It will be interesting to see.
Although I don't share your views on this issue, I've had fun discussing it with you. Thank you for the time you've taken to reply.
So yes, if I could stomach the names to begin with, I would never use Ashley, Lindsey, or Whitney on a boy, just as I wouldn't use Logan or Ashton on a girl.
You're right that August is relatively uncommon, and I certainly don't think it would be traumatic for a girl to be named August. I don't, however, believe that most names change because of usage by "adventurous" individuals, unless that individual is famous and/or influential. I believe most names change because of changes in their climate of usage--societal and cultural changes that push parents to and from different kinds of names. Or maybe it's a combination of the two in some magic ratio. I don't think we know. Perhaps August will change over time, perhaps not. It will be interesting to see.
Although I don't share your views on this issue, I've had fun discussing it with you. Thank you for the time you've taken to reply.
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No problem ;) I guess we just have different opinions. I'm not obsessed with celebrity names at all I just googled August and I used it as an example to show that there are other people who see it as feminine.
I think that August is a very uncommon name for both genders at the moment so for most people my August would be the first one they would meet and therefore would probably see it as a feminine name. To me, for example, Luca is more of a girls name because I went to school with a girl named Luca. It's not that I'm naming her John or something like that.
I think that August is a very uncommon name for both genders at the moment so for most people my August would be the first one they would meet and therefore would probably see it as a feminine name. To me, for example, Luca is more of a girls name because I went to school with a girl named Luca. It's not that I'm naming her John or something like that.
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